Why do the Arsenal ‘realists’ continue to ignore hard facts

Opinion of a Realist

There are Arsenal fans who call themselves realists, but fail to ignore hard facts. The 2019-2020 season saw us end on 56 points with unruly trouble makers for players. The clean out started and 2020-2021 saw us end with 61 points, 5 points short of European action. This season we are already on 66 points with three games to spare and 1 point behind third place.

Mikel Arteta has done that which many managers would not dare. To rebuild a team in the manner he has in such a toxic environment. Ill-disciplined players and underporfmers collecting their fat paychecks every month and refusing to move on, so they can hold on to their nice salaries, while the blame is put on the manager for their poor performances. Supporters who have been alienated from the team. Players clashing with supporters. And the numbers of supporters dwindling at the Emirates stadium.

A classic example is Olè Gunnar Solskjaer’s failure to clean up Man Utd’s dressing room while he had the opportunity, and that cost him his job. Can anyone remember how optimistic Man Utd supporters were when Ralf Rangnick came in? They were raving about how he mastered the pressing game and how he was going to improve their team. There has been no improvement, but rather a dismal deterioration that continues.

The Man Utd hierarchy may not want to admit it, but they are looking at what Mikel and Arsenal are doing, and all of a sudden they are speaking the same language. There has to be a clear out.

For Mikel to have started a massive clear out and still be able to keep the ship steady and sailing forward is Amazing. I don’t think he gets enough credit. And that, with some unproven talent and players nobody gave a sniff to be fighting for top four, nevermind top three, come the end of the season.

What some gooners fail to realise is that the dressing room could have been in shambles, and the supporters even further alienated from the team, management and owners. But Mikel and the board remained firm. Mikel has convinced the owners of his project and they are ready to back him up. He has managed to close the gap between owners and supporters, and supporters and team. The Emirates stadium is slowly becoming a fortress again.

We still have +/- 11 players that could possibly leave, and any person who uses logic will tell you that Arsenal are not going to go out and replace ±/— 11 players in one or even two windows. And considering how difficult the January transfer window is, it makes it even harder.

So there is still work to be done to get us up there. So I expect two, at most three, additions will come in in the summer, but I am also reminded that we made four signings last summer, so anything is possible.

The future is looking bright. Upward and Onward We Go! COYG!!!!

By Realist Gooner

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    1. Who are the unproven players you talked about?White,Tomi,MØ, Ramsdale, Saka,Gabi…??I know some love to remind us how young our team is but I checked it,the average age of our starting XI is not that much younger to other teams, take Brighton is a matter of few months,and less than a year compared to several other teams.not only that but when it comes to experience,our team is much more experienced.having said that,I will give credits where it’s due .to MA ,the coaching staff and players..but let’s not make it a bigger deal/achievement than it is.we spent some money, other clubs have had their own challenges,changing managers, injuries hit squad,long runs in European and domestic competitions.let’s wait for next season to see how we will deal with playing in several competitions shall we??

  1. you make no mention of the only trophy being won was with these underperforming players.

    so the question needs to be asked why no trophy won with hisbiwn team and preforming players.

    1. You can ask questions, and sometimes it’s more luck and convenience than quality. But cred to them for winning two pieces of silverware.

      Do you believe that our former group of players had significantly better potential than our current group?

      Wasn’t it the same group of players that forced Emery out?

    2. FA Cup wins or Carling Cup wins don’t always show a team’s strength. Even small clubs once in a while win these domestic cups.. It’s a good trophy to win but it makes me cringe always hearing people going on about how Arteta won the FA cup. The FA cups are just cups that have surprises all the time. Small championship or mid table clubs always carry out giant killing nearly season.

      Portsmouth won and got relegated.
      Wigan won and got relegated.
      Birmingham won and got relegated.
      Swansea won a cup final.

      Struggling Arsenal won it when Arteta took over. We won it like 4 times out of 6 in wengers later years, but those wins proved nothing as we continued to stagnate or dropping as a club.

      Fa cup wins are a nice morale boosters for telhe fans but I would rather we start going for the EPL or Champions League trophies..

      1. So Goonster, if MA doesn’t win the PL or the CL, are you saying he would be a failure?

        Go back and check the names of the clubs who have won the fa cup in, say, the last twenty years and tell me how many “surprises “‘ as you put it, were made?

        How many other clubs won the fa cup and were then relegated, apart from your hand picked examples?

        Let’s wait until the end of the season and then compare Mikels stats to our previous managers ie position, points, GF, GA, money spent /received and then the debate can really be based on facts and not opinions.

        1. @Ken
          But it does not matter. What matters is that you always get surprises in these Cups. Crystal Palace who are on 44 points in the EPL made the semi finals of the FA CUP this season while Arsenal who are in 4th place on 66 points in the PL were knocked out by Nottigham Forest in the 3rd round or something like that..

          It’s not always the best teams in the league that win the FA cup or Carling Cup etc. During our Arteta FA cup win we beat the likes of City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc that were better teams than us.. Arsenal winning the FA cups we won in the past 6 season is not a guage on how good we were. They are just cup games, hence why we won those Cups while we were in a downward spiral. We were winning those FA CUPS while being spanked by scorelines like 5-2, 6-1, 4-0, 6-3, 3-0 etc on constant basis by the likes of City, Liverpool, Chelsea. On top of that in the CL the likes of Bayern were spanking us by 5 goals in a single leg etc..

          And I want to see Arteta stabilising us as a serious Top 4 and giving the likes of City and Liverpool a real fight for the title. I don’t expect us to win the title next season but I want to see Arteta turn some of these moral defeats we suffered against the likes of City and Liverpool into points. Just a delusional person would be expecting Arteta to win the league next season with City and Liverpool still on fire. But I expect a much better fight against the likes of those Top 2 clubs next season.

          He achieved my goals I set last season. I wanted him to make us serious contenders for the Top 4 places.. I said all I wanted to see was progress and a sustained fight for those Top places against United, Chelsea and Spurs. And he seems to have achieved it. So I can’t complain too much, can I?

          1. But you get surprises in the league – Blackburn and Leicester winning the PL – Liverpool being thrashed 7-0 (?) by Villa – Arsenal losing to Palace, Brighton and Southampton, then beating manure and chelsea.

            If winning a cup is a “nice” thing to do, why all the fuss about winning the CL?
            Isn’t that just as much a lottery as the way you describe the exploits of our club in the fa cup?

            Again, if we finish fifth, how is that progress from Emery’s fifth spot?
            Until we analysis the end of season in it’s entirety, one cannot judge the facts can they?

            1. But you can never get a Leicester, blackburn winning the EPL and getting relegated that same season. And they played about 38 game in ordee to win those titles.. Cup games are different, they are knockout competitions. How many games does a PL club have to play in order to get to the final of an FA cup or Carling Cup?
              And another thing, a draw might come around when a big team is going through bad form at that given moment. During these Cup games you have the big teams resting their big first team players in the initial stages of these competitions. That should tell you all you need to know. How many big teams rest their best players during the initial stages of the EPL or CL? How many clubs will play their kids during any PL / CL games if not forced by circumstance (Injuries, suspensions, illness, personal problems?).
              The FA cups are knockout stages where the those cup games are played during a period where an Arsenal team is going through a dip in form, a time where Arsenal makes 11 changes to the starting 11, where thise 11 include 7 youth players and 4 first team bench players. That Nottingham Forest might catch an out of form Arsenal at a given time..

              But winning the FA cup or Carling cup is not the way to guage how amazing or good a team is..

              Just being honest..

            2. surprises in the league are always caused by consistency.

              Wins in cups can be caused by a myriad of factors – current form, schedule congestion, injuries, complacency, sometimes even luck.

              You cant win the league by luck. the only way is winning more games

        2. Bro stop with the crap,so are you saying that you prefer the the previous Arsenal team that this present team? A team with promise and potential managed by charismatic coach ?

      2. The FA cup is STILL a prestige trophy and highly regarded by most informed fans in the UK. Just remember when it comes to winning trophies we’re competing against financial cheats.

        1. @Jax
          The FA cup appeal is not what it used to be back in the days. Lets be honest.
          For the last 15 years all you keep hearing in punditry is that the big clubs seem to have turned these domestic cups into competitions to gain their youth players some experience and also give their bench players game time and also the competitions has just become nice day out for the family..
          I know they say that the FA cup has prestige. Nice talking point. But if it is that prestigious today then how come big teams play kids or their second string team until when they get to the later stages? These big team never do the same during any EPL or CL games. And even during the qualification for the group stages in the CL you still the big team playing their full strength first 11. Even if they are playing a farmers team from Moldova when qualifying for the group stage etc they still put out their strongest teams.

          But they never do that for the FA cup or Carling cup.

          Can you see my contention?

          1. The thing is, the has to be an avenue to give younger players minutes. What are you suggesting, do away with the academy, not bother developing anyone, and buy a new squad whenever it ages and retires? This is why they do their job, and you do yours

    3. @mambo

      You can win smaller cups with poor teams, e.g. Wigan beating Man C to win the FA Cup, but getting relegated in the same season.

      Better example, Arsenal winning the FA Cup 2 years ago under Arteta compared to the team we have now.

      Would you rather we ditched the players we have now and revert back to what we had?

      My overall point is that winning a domestic cup, doesn’t mean you have a great team.

        1. Missing the point completely. the point is, we have a much better squad now than we did then. this squad, by all accounts, could win the FA cup the same as the previous squad did. there are so many factors at play to achieve a cup win. In the league the only factor is CONSISTENCY

    4. Tuchel won the Champions League last season with Lampard’s players. He’s just a point ahead us this season. Please I need an explanation

  2. also we are getting results which is great, but the performances have you falling asleep and are really not that convincing.

    you also forget Willian was an underperforming player on fat wages chosen by Arteta himself.

    Auba was given mega contract by Arteta himself.

    you cant blame Ozil as he did not feature in 2020 season.

    Who were these trouble makers in 2020 that played for the team which Arteta did not pick?

    Most players Arteta did not want went on loan, so i call bs on article.

    cherry picking again, must pay well.

    1. And he hasn’t mentioned the owner in all this, giving him massive funds to spend and losing huge amounts on players we have let go!!!!!!!!

      1. Why do you believe the owner has made that decision? Is it based on panic, strategic decision-making, or coincidences?

        1. Of course the owner has the final say in all decisions, or at least an interest as to what is happening. He is the sole owner.

          1. I agree; his approach has changed, which could be related to having complete control of the club. I have never been happy with this owner, but there’s little to do. I want Arsenal to deliver as good as possible despite our limitations.

    2. Also Ole was performing batter then Arteta but still given a boot as Man U have bigger ambition then us, if Ole would still be in the seat then he would be using his example to say look at United they are doing well because they stuck with Ole lol!, in all his cherry picks he forgot to mention lampard who qualified for champions league but still got booted out then Tuchel came in won the champions league. Logical and unbiased Article or comment is not expected by die heart Arteta fans.

    3. We have a young team that has not been playing together for a very long time. Our squad is not the fourth-best in the league, but we could become 3rd, 4th, or 5th in the EPL, which is decent and better than expected.

      So far, only two teams have won more games than us, and we are progressing. We have a team with the potential to get better, and I expect us to get better next season. But the competition will probably get more challenging.

      1. Didrik, one second you are saying we are not the fourth best team in the league, then you say that only two teams have won more games than us…. so are we the third best team?

        1. Sorry, but now you are nitpicking. Do we have the fourth best squad in the league? From my point view no.

          1. It’s not nickpicking, just reading your views and asking a question.
            If we have only two teams that have scored more goals than us… then it must be our defensive side.
            Yet this was supposed to be the main area that Mikel had addressed, introducing five new defenders – so where is the progress in that area?

            Are we the 4th best squad?
            The league says we are at the moment.

  3. Arsenal making a mistake resigning Elneny, forgetting about Ozil and Auba cases. We need a CL cable midfielder

    1. Elneny unlike the aforementioned won’t to be convinced with fat paychecks to stay.
      Rather he would gladly grab whatever deal he’s offered.

      1. Spot on! He’s happy to be part of our squad and isn’t a troublemaker.

        I can’t remember him being consistent game after game. He must have got a clever mentor 🙂

        1. Willian was chosen by Edu and the Club agree players wages, not Arteta.

          So who is cherry picking?

  4. Total opinion, not fact or realism. But come the end of May lets hope we can see the facts in a positive light and all our opinions dont matter then.

  5. Here we go again.
    More than 500 clubs out there.
    Nearly 30 top clubs all over the world.
    Unaccountable numbers of professional players.
    But all these, it’s only Arsenal who have toxic players, who have to rebuild, who have the youngest squad, who paid players salary the most, who have a process..
    In fact there’s no manager who has ever rebuild a team till our manager showed up.
    Just like Wenger who was building for more than a decade with little to show for it.
    It’s how confidence you are of how another team are to operate their own team in similar to us but wouldn’t admit it is what I don’t get.
    If there’s anything I see here, it’s you showing Arteta progress and not Arsenal as a team in terms of tables .
    Till Thursday we are not guaranteed of being the 4th in the table.
    A lot of work has been done and credit should be given for that..
    Team are united of course when you win, tell me a winning team who’s not united.
    But even at that, we still have people who don’t buy the manager idea and they might be minority but it still doesn’t mean the fans are united, good relationship between the owner and the fans is not accurate as well, it was just last year that there was a mass protest on the owner, and every single match we play, we see numbers of fans who still go out to scapegoat the players..
    If pep with all he has achieved still face criticism, then any manager with less achievement is meant to face it as well.
    This people are not doing anyone favor here.
    They are being paid to do a Job.
    Both players and the managers as well.
    And the fact the board are fully behind the process doesn’t show they truly care.
    Football is just another money making business for owners, and everything else become second.
    This same board and owner was with Wenger for years.

  6. Why is it so difficult to be a supporter?
    The writer as Reggie points out is only putting an opinion forward but there is no acceptance from those above on this article that we are now pushing for 4th under the man they are so sceptical about.
    I know we all cherry pick but bringing up Willian as an example of Arteta’s failings is weak. He at least had the decency to go. Auba who engineered a move this season is another. If we were still in the doldrums then I’d be on the same bandwagon as you . This team is currently within grasp of top4. It must be that I am easily pleased.

    1. Sue P you are right we are pushing for 4th and i for one hope we get it and will congratulate the manager and the owner for that. But until we do, we are no further on than 6 years ago, so being an obvious Arsenal sceptic, after years of false promise, i will wait until we actually finish in 4th, hopefully this Thursday.

      1. Ah Reggie but were you sceptical in that although we finished in the top4 we didn’t enjoy the pinnacle of success for donkey’s years and in Europe for even longer?
        For a long time I was a be careful for what I wished for person as top4, although not a trophy, did bring hope of one. I do want to be back in the top4 but recognise the likelihood of sustaining it year on year is wishful thinking. The mega bucks clubs will probably win the day regularly. There are rumours that Haaland is on the brink of joining City. It’s that kind of edge we can’t compete with.
        Sometimes I think we all expect too much bearing in mind the club as a whole – not just the team and manager – needs to be in perfect health to be winners.
        It is looking better on the owner front after dodgy appointments upstairs which I believe set us back.

  7. The performing players are a work in progress. And i firmly believe they will deliver in due time. If we can make the top4, that will be a great achievements for this young squad Arteta is putting together.

  8. A realistic overview in my opinion Admin Pat
    Can’t appease all the fans all the time as there will always be some who nit pick but overall a majority of us a pleased how the season is turning out for us so far.
    Trophies will come but we need stability which we are slowly doing.
    football could be better but as mentioned before 21 wins this season which is the 3rd best in the prem. 4 points clear of 5th place. 3 games to go and CL in sight is a good indicator that we are heading in the right direction.
    i will take wins over performance right now as points count more than we played great but got nothing from the game
    pool have take years to get where there are now but they had a head start in recruiting a top manager but even he failed at the beginning and i remember last season when they had a wobble, some fans where coming out saying he is done and they need to replace…. its a crazy game
    3 to go and who of you out there would not have settled for this position we are in at the start of the season?
    onwards and upwards

      1. Let’s see how many want him to leave after the season. Perhaps you have a new manager with a success guarantee?

          1. Perhaps you will have a reliable solution soon, or is negativity the only approach you have?

      2. morning Dan
        was is the DK poll
        hard to believe that 61% said out but it must be true if you say it
        hopefully since the poll was taken a few might have seen sense and jumped from the dark side to the realistic side
        open to try and understand the negativity and especially at this stage of the season but just cant get my head around it
        everyone has the right to there own opinion which is why we love this game so we will see who comes out on top at the end
        chin up and dont stop not believing, its always good for a read
        onwards and upwards

        1. Do you still think Arteta is the right manager for Arsenal?

          No (52%, 415 Votes)
          Yes (36%, 292 Votes)
          Undecided (12%, 95 Votes)

          Obviously a few more voters after the last time I looked which was 61%

          1. That was the numbers on the 23rd. Remember Arsenal won a game lol.
            I bet the vote would be different now, but as promised I will wait to the end of the season…

          2. Realistic???
            You claim the majority wanted him out. Is that the majority of Arsenal supporters across the world or is it only on this platform? See this is the level of intelligence that amazes me. You listed a total of 802 votes and yet the Emirates is almost filled with +/- 50,000 supporters at a time. Arsenal is one of the biggest and most successful clubs in London and they have a total of 77.7m fan following on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram combined.
            I would not read too much into that 61% you so proudly quote.

            1. Alan was talking about fans on here so I gave the poll from fans on here .now that’s not too hard to work out is it dboy

          3. This poll was taken when we lost 3 straight games, U know how emotional fans can be. I doubt u will get this same results now

            1. What’s your point
              I was questioning Alan’s claim that the majority was behind Arteta i pointed out that as of 3 weeks ago that was not true .

              1. Dan, I respect your opinions but I don’t agree with everything. Honestly what can we expect from an Arsenal poll after losing three games we “expected” to win? I’m not saying that Arteta is perfect, but he’s our manager and now we need to support our club and players. Our fan base has been a laughing stock for years, let’s show some new qualities mate 🫶

          4. At this moment in time I would say he is.
            Change brings uncertainty and we have had that for far too long
            Next season could be completely different
            There are only 2 domestic cups to be had
            1 league title
            1 European Cup to win if you are in it
            And 4 places for the top tier plus other European spots
            We failed miserably last season for numerous reasons and he was lucky to be kept on
            This season I think the club are justified in keeping him on
            Open for a new discussion on this subject next season but for now he is the right man for the job for us

            1. Dan
              I wasn’t one on those MA out even when we run in too a bad patch.
              It’s hard not to get emotionally involved and make snap decisions when polls are pulled
              I think polls are best pulled at the end of the season rather then during a season.
              Results change week to week so if we lose 3 on the spin (if it was taken during this period) a lot more would say heads need to roll
              The last 4 games and people would be.more inclined to say best thing since slice bread

            2. Alan Ball a great player but now also a great writer. Keep up the good work, nice to read something optimistic 🔴⚪️

      3. Poll? I have 4 season tickets, so who was in this poll? I wasn’t contacted a season ticket holder and former shareholder with over 50+ years of support.

        This is why polls are so wrong, they probably contact 100 kids who have never seen Arsenal win the league.

  9. We are 4th with a chance at 3rd, but can mathematically end up 5th. Let’s wait a bit before crowing.

    People see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. No doubt there has been progress this year, if you are honest.

    Also, there should be an improvement from 8th with 250 million to spend.
    For me it’s always been about the club, and I criticized all 3 managers when they failed to deliver.

    How many can say the same equal treatment?

    To pretend no other manager would accept these conditions is absurd. Massive transfer kitty in 18 months and still getting larger, complete control over decisions, and no fear of being sacked for 2 years despite losing European football.

    Those are dream conditions for any manager; money, freedom, and no fear of sacking.

    Credit to Arteta and the boys so far, but it’s no miracle my friends, it’s what you should expect in return for all the money and decision power given.

    It’s a compliment not bashing to Arteta to finally hold him accountable like the 2 previous managers. No more “rookie” passes, he’s earned his stripes and managing and judged on equal footing now.

    1. I agree with you, but we have what we got, and several clubs have better squads than us. From my point of view, we have the fifth or sixth best squad in the league.

      Our rebuilding is far from over, and I expected that we needed at least 400 million to compete for the top three. In the meantime, the competition has been even more challenging. Soon Newcastle will be in the race as well.

      There’s no chance for us to compete top four without investing big money nowadays.

      1. Didrik, so from what you are suggesting, a total of £735,000,000 will have to be spent in order for Mikel Arteta to be judged properly, is that the case?

        1. Did I wrote that? From my point of view Arteta has manage a lot already. If our ambitions is to win the league we will have to invest lots of money. Next season the competition will probably get even more challenging. I expect Man. United to return and Newcastle has money and ambitions too.

          I will remain an Arsenal supporter anyway and I don’t expect us to win the league, but 2016 can happen again therefore should we be ready to grab our chance.

          1. You said we need £400,000,000 to compete with the best.
            So add that to what kronkie has already spent since the end of the 2017/18 season and the figure of £735,000,000 becomes a reality based on your figures.

            Now, to get the kind of players that we need to challenge the likes of City etc will take time and, like it or not, we will still be picking the crumbs from the top table – if you don’t accept that, you are not a realist.

            That’s why I said in a earlier post, if he can keep us as a top four club and reach the Q/F of the CL year in year out, then we can ask for no more…. in my opinion.

  10. Really good points in the article. While I’ve certainly had a few criticisms and doubts about arteta, one thing I’ve never really wavered from is the belief that he would improve the environment within the squad and if he were to ultimately fail to improve results, he’d have left the squad in a better place than when he joined.
    I hadn’t even considered the points totals, but that’s as clear an indicator of improvement as you could ask for really.
    I hope we can hang onto top 4, and I think we will (although these final 3fixtures are not easy), but honestly just getting back into Europe will be important, as it would allow us to keep improving the squad imo.

  11. Arsenal presently is punching above its weight.

    The fourth spot is not a true reflection of the quality of the team, three to four team below us have more quality squad man to man, so we are not only ahead of schedule but you can see the upward trajectory.

    It’s not surprising Manchester United United studying our blue print

    1. Where did you read that about manure studying our blue print Gun. Smoke?
      It doesn’t seem to be helping them at the moment, does it?

  12. The table never lies
    After 38 games if we end up 3rd 4th or 5th that is where we deserve to be
    Then we can decide if we had a good or poor season
    3 to go and so far so good but anything can from now to the end.

  13. Arteta isn’t perfect. I think we can all agree on that.

    But if one is able to put the whataboutism to the side – what about Willian, what about Aubamayang’s contract, what about Emery and Wenger not getting the same leeway as Arteta, what about Ole getting fired, what about two consecutive 8th place finishes, what about Tuchel transforming Chelsea etc etc – I hope we can also agree that the club is moving in the right direction.

    1. Arteta can’t be responsible for our 8th place finish in 2020, he got appointed 22. December 2019. Arsenal league results before Arteta got appointed.:

      Newcastle – Arsenal 0-1
      Arsenal – Burnley 2-1
      Liverpool – Arsenal 3-1
      Arsenal-Tottenham 2-2
      Watford-Arsenal 2-2
      Arsenal-Aston Villa 3-2
      Man. United-Arsenal 1-1
      Arsenal-Bournemouth 1-0
      Sheffield United-Arsenal 1-0
      Arsenal-Crystal Palace 2-2
      Arsenal-Wolves 1-1
      Leicester-Arsenal 2-0
      Arsenal-Southampton 2-2
      Norwich-Arsenal 2-2
      Arsenal-Brighton 1-2
      West Ham-Arsenal 1-3
      Arsenal-Man. City 0-3
      Everton-Arsenal 0-0

      18 games and 23 points.

      League results after Arteta got appointed.:

      Bournemouth-Arsenal 1-1
      Arsenal-Chelsea 1-2
      Arsenal-Man. United 2-0
      Crystal Palace-Arsenal 1-1
      Arsenal-Sheffield United 1-1
      Chelsea-Arsenal 2-2
      Burnley-Arsenal 0-0
      Arsenal-Newcastle 4-0
      Arsenal-Everton 3-2
      Arsenal-West Ham 1-0
      Man. City-Arsenal 3-0
      Brighton-Arsenal 2-1
      Southampton-Arsenal 0-2
      Arsenal-Norwich 4-0
      Wolves-Arsenal 0-2
      Arsenal-Leicester 1-1
      Tottenham-Arsenal 2-1
      Arsenal-Liverpool 2-1
      Aston Villa-Arsenal 1-0
      Arsenal-Watford 3-2

      20 games 33 points.
      Finished 8th with 56 points.

      1. Well I kind of agreed we shouldn’t blame him for the first 8th.
        But if so be it, why did we go ahead and say klopp finished 8th when he joined Liverpool knowing very well he didn’t start the league with them as well..
        This is why I will never by the klopp comparison.
        In their first full season one finished 8th and the other finished 4th..
        And we both know nobody can share the second 8th with Arteta because he started the season and ended it.
        And after 18games of last season were had 26points. Just 3 point more of the season before he was appointed.

        1. What about state of the clubs? Liverpool almost won the league in 2014. Liverpool was in a much better condition when Klopp got appointed. I have never compared them and I think it’s unfair with this comparison. Liverpool has a total different history than us as well, I respect they great history but I dislike them big time. I became an Arsenal fan in 1971, in the 70s Liverpool won almost everything 😅 Liverpool have been very clever and built a strong foundation for lasting success.

          1. I disagree that Liverpool was in a better position though. Apart from the league, they were far from winning any trophy.
            Even at that, we could say we were on a better condition as well considering that team reached two different competition finals in two different season before the appointment of Arteta. We finished as a runner up as well in the season leceister won it. Remember Suarez was the driving force for their challenging and he was sold before klopp get appointed. Sterling only lasted a season. The players arteta inherited might not be up to the level needed to move forward but they are way better than that Liverpool.
            Going by information, sterling, Coutinho and Gerrard are the only players in that team that will start ahead in the team arteta inherited.

              1. Firmino won’t start ahead of Auba man, neither would Henderson ahead of xhaka or torreira. Remember Auba was a golden boot winner a season before arteta was appointed and a runner up the season arteta was appointed. Have it in mind how average Henderson was then and he only started to improve with klopp and so does many other players under him. Who are you going to replace Milner with in the middle?? Because he started to play different positions under klopp. They had clyne and Moreno at right and left back respectfully , while Milner was playing in middle of the field. Gerrard , Coutinho and xhaka occupied the middle already. It’s actually debatable but like I said we do have a better squad than that what klopp inherited.

                1. If our squad was better they definitely was underperforming. In addition did we have lots of internal obstacles, and a really negative atmosphere in our stadium.
                  Every time I went our stadium it was a hostile and very negative atmosphere. Nobody can perform in such an environment.

                  1. Now you might have just explained it all. If there’s anything, that team ain’t poor. But yeah they were underperforming considering the amount of money they earned.
                    Another thing was 3 seasons earlier before Wenger retired we started to spend heavily to this present day. I would like to move on from the past but I can’t help to point finger at Wenger who contributed a lot to all you mentioned. Well he could have chose this Arteta way by being ruthless but he wasn’t that kind of a coach.

          2. Didrik, you are making that up, ask Liverpool fans what state they were in and you would hear a very different story to the one you are trying to have us believe.

            1. They were a famous slip from winning the league in 2014. We haven’t been that close the last decade, and they won the CL and the Super Cup in 2005. They totally dominated the league in the 70s and 80s. We became a regular top team during Wenger’s tenure, but being relevant weren’t enough for our fan base.

  14. When you read the comments….you will Assume you are in justTothenham….

    Arsenal fans are some of the most unpatriotic fans I have ever seen, if wishes were horses, I would have allowed This young coach go and allowed them “all knowing fan coach” to Baptise a world class coach for arsenal.

    I mean look at Pochetinno in PSG
    Allegri struggling with Juventus
    We are looking at Tothenham’s Conte ….loose games they were meant to win which would have seen them take hold of this fourth spot

    When are we going to appreciate our own, be contented and move on….

    It’s very obvious majority in here were expecting this manager to fail on his job and get sacked, God willing should we make top four.

    They would extend their odd expectations to next season, hoping we crash out, have a very awful season …….

    I mean why the bitterness when it’s posativeness is cost free, I mean it cost nothing to be optimistic even when it’s obvious our manager is learning on his damn job!!!!

    1. @Misheal Leashim

      God bless your mind.

      besides the past is the past. you will hurt yourself if you dwell too much on past mistakes.

      I think we should be optimistic given where we are and the possibility of what lies ahead of us.

      only a healthy dose of realism and hope is good.

      extremism is a thing for fans. love and hate.

        1. Well written Mishael….for some “the grass will always be greener on the other side”

  15. I want to suggest to admin to include like or love options……I don’t want to make any comments on this but to just like the above comments about FA Cups.

  16. Is Arteta the “right” manager? Nobody knows.

    Everyone can voice an opinion, but in reality they won’t know until more time has gone by.

    The clubs with too much money are going to win things in this era and those with less money will struggle, including AFC.

    So judging MA by trophies won etc is not a fair yardstick, it can only be viewed thrugh the lens of performance versus (realistic) expected performance in the money-dominated football world.

    Which means City and Newcastle will be the dominant teams in future. Liverpool will do well to stay where they are, Chelsea without their oligarch’s loans will slide (already starting to do that).

    They may have dodged a bullet with the sanctions meaning they don’t have to pay back the gigantic loans to his holding companies (£1.5bn ?).

    AFC? Probably will struggle to maintain top 4 consistently until the money men call in their loans and the current “winners” sink the same way Leeds did – perhaps only to be replaced by the next billionaire’s toy club.

    To me, MA seems to be doing quite well up to now considering AFC’s place on the money-ladder.

    1. I agree IdontknowwhyIcare, but wasn’t that the case from the minute Abramovitch and the sheiks changed the picture when they bought their clubs…. just as the case will be with Newcastle.

      A section of the fanbase couldnt/wouldn’t accept this and I can only see the same thing happening with Mikel Arteta.

  17. As an arch realist myself (though not realist who wrote this fine piece), I havelong told all who will read my posts that a percentageof our JA FANS HAVE NO IDEA OF THE VITAL IMPORTANCE OR THE ACHIEVEMENT MADE IN GETTING A HARMONIOUS AND ALL OUT EFFORT DRESSING ROOM.

    For many years under AW and UE we had a diva led d/room with LAZY prima donnas like Ozil, Auba, Myki and the appalling “up himself” brat that was Guendouzi.

    MA, thrillingly , has achieved a proper d/room full of players who all fight for each other as one and who do not sh.t on the club who pays them the obscenely ludicrous wages which all players get(not “earn” but get!!).

    These wages are of course paid, albeit indirectly, by we fans and those who have wilfully refused to give their all out effort have disrespected and taken for fool, we fans! They have wilfully broken thr moral code unde which we all accept( while holding our noses) the ludicrous wages they receive as long as they give all out effort.

    Some, in ridiculous fashion, still call for the reinstatement of Guendouzi.
    God help us if such fans had their way. But mercifully they do not!
    Others have now changed their former minds but still some refuse to admit it. Others still, will NEVER admit to being wrong about MA,as they have not the character , honesty or courage to do so.


    1. Many thanks Jon, not many fans here with your perspective and understanding 👍

  18. What i want to know is why do the people who definitely aren’t realists, think thay are. Delusions of grandeur comes to mind. I think to constantly blow yourself up to be what you aren’t and try to shove it in peoples faces are fools. We are ALL opinionists, nothing else!!!!!!!!

    1. True, but what is good enough for you Reggie? Wenger made us a regular top club, he made us relevant. But Emirates became a negative place to be, I really disliked the abuse and disrespectful behave from our so-called fan base. I’m not a big fan of Xhaka, but turning against our own player, it’s pathetic 😂

  19. People who have no idea about how football works will just say Arteta is the problem without giving a logical explanation.
    When Arsenal was at the bottom of the league (number 20), Chelsea was in 4th place. Now Arsenal is in 4th and Chelsea in 3rd place. We climbed 16 places while Chelsea climbed only one spot.
    Do you know that Arsenal doesn’t have a strong substitute bench like Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U? And yet Arteta is taking us to Champions league.
    After reading this, do you still think Arteta is the problem? Appreciate the guy.

  20. Tottenham played 4 5 1 formation against Liverpool parking the bus to counter whenable and I remember Liverpool’s Manager bemoaning such negative tactics BUT Arsenal had an open play both against Man. City & Liverpool outplaying both teams with words of commendation from both Managers even thou we lost to poor finishing so let’s see what formation Tottenham comes up-with be assured they will meet a pleasant surprise in Arsenals game plan. Arteta is often look down upon as being fresh in Management but what he has quietly done over the last two seasons in Arsenal speaks volumes about his football brain and man management performance; are you not among those commenting on the massive improvement on how Arsenal play? How they have quietly defeated opponents no one imagined? When last did Arsenal take a lead towards the end of a game defending roborstly to win the game and not draw compared to other teams? Food for thought as Gunners march-on.

    1. Yes, Lawark. I am also looking forward to see, how Spurs approach the game.
      Conte is a Mourinho type of manager, only in a nicer wrapping.
      His preferred approach is defensive, but this will feel like a must win game for them. Will he be forced out of his comfort zone, and what do we/Arteta expect them to do?

  21. People also have to realize that you can only punch above your weight in a tournament not in a league. A league is a complete aggregate of your true position. A reflection of your strengths and weaknesses over a long period. How many teams in 4th over the years have had more points than the current occupiers after the same number of matches?

  22. Every person and thing in this naïve “four-dimensional” universe is the outcome of some past event(s) or processes. Within these simplistic dimensions, the only way we can view the future is through the lenses of the past. Therefore, there should be no complaints about those who do not believe Arsenal is capable of finishing fourth. Furthermore, they should not be viewed as negative thinkers, but rather as the nominal group based on the recent and semi-recent past events.

    However, those who desire to view the future differently from the past should not be labelled “delusional” by the normalcy group, since these individuals are frequently the rare outliers who do alter the future.

    Keeping the above in mind will benefit us in maintaining a cordial existence, albeit this may not always be the case.

    With regards to realism, we note the following: In spite of the fact that nearly no one or machine learning algorithm could have anticipated that Manchester City would lose to Real Madrid with five minutes remaining in their Champions League semi-final match, it therefore confirms that life is merely statistical, and forecasts about the future are vulnerable to errors. Therefore, in a special case as today, all we can do for today’s game between Arsenal and Spurs is wait or in the best case, speak about it in probabilistic terms. Then, we may either begin to criticize or celebrate the past after the game. Therefore, anyone who seeks to speak about the future in deterministic terms (proud) rather than probabilistic terms (humble) can only be considered in the best case as naïve.   

    Consequently, dear friends, despite the above, life is only exciting due to our diversities as well as our obvious ignorance about the future. 

    Finally, since we do not expect Egyptians, Romans, or Greeks to continue to marvel and discuss themselves as superpowers after so many centuries of their fall from a such position, therefore, why should we (Arsenal fans) still talk as though we are entitled to being top four or title challengers? If we do so, we are once again as unrealistic as simple products of the past. Therefore, we must acknowledge that Arsenal has declined over the years and that we cannot return to the top without a lengthy and arduous rebuilding process. Consequently, the inquiry should be, where are we currently? Your response will reveal if you are a realist, futurist, or nominalist. Again, this can only be done in probabilistic terms (and not deterministic) at the end of the season (while still noting that we know nothing for certain about the subsequent future).

    In my “opinion”, I believe that we are in a rebuilding phase, and surely so, we are progressing with “high probability” in the correct direction!

    Remain positive, my dear friends!

    Best wishes always!

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