You reap what you sow – Remember AFTV saying Top Four wasn’t good enough?

Some Fans Deserve This! By Dan

Ivan Gazidis promised us that leaving Highbury would ensure that Arsenal became a ‘European Super power like Bayern Munich.’ In 2021 we are further away than we ever have been since that statement of competing at the top level.

This squad will go down as one of our worst in decades, the first to not be in Europe in 25 years.

Part of finding any solution is accepting there is a problem in the first place. Thursday night meant we could no longer paper over the cracks. Since then an inquest has begun over how we hit rock bottom.

Listening to AFTV’s point of view, they blamed Arteta, Kroenke, and of course usual scapegoats like Bellerin and Rob Holding (the defence had kept a clean sheet so had done their end of the bargain).

Host Robbie then said something that got me thinking, ‘Fans don’t deserve this.’ Is that true?

DT meanwhile was saying how he hated the club and was threatening not to take part in other Fan Cams this season. Judging by how the Fan Channel protested so much, I wasn’t the only Gooner who saw the irony.

Here were Youtubers who built their views on verbally abusing the greatest manager in our history and anyone who dared defend him.

Who in one breath wanted the world to know they were bringing banners to games, in the next breath running to Mr Wenger’s car for a selfie – having the day before called him the C word?

One regular didn’t have the respect to stay behind and applaud the Frenchmen in his last home match. Instead of keeping that to himself, he boasted that to the cameras, then had the audacity to complain whenever he got criticised, the exact thing he was doing.

This content made us the ‘banter club’ on YouTube but it also allowed people to give up their jobs and make money through talking about Football. It is hard to begrudge anyone that opportunity.

Yet take the emotion out of it, it’s hard to feel sorry for a section of our fan base.

Be honest if you didn’t support the Gunners, would you not be saying ‘be careful what you wish for …?’

If you heard someone constantly complain about a relationship, saying how much better they be if they separated, how much sympathy would you have? Especially if you heard this person mocking and belittling their partner, telling everyone how you were going to do so much better.

In my metaphor Mr Wenger is the jilted lover. He handled his exit with dignity and continues to earn a decent living travelling the world with FIFA.

He has too much class to point out that his ex-employers have failed since forcing him out – so I will do it for him.

Working for the Kroenke’s, it was an achievement to finish in the top 4 as much as we did. Some of my peers acted spoilt, like we had a divine right to be doing better. They represented the social media generation of entitlement. Not content with the idea of ‘you win or lose’ in Sport, fans now wanted an explanation, like they had been personally let down.

I maintain if that was any other club you too would see the irony of the fans who cried for ‘only’ finishing in the top 4, now worrying if they will ever again … finish in the top 4!

It’s not just managers, it’s become accepted in our fanbase to have agendas against our own players. How often have we looked down on players thinking we were better?

It’s become the norm for our own talent to admit they have been mentally affected by the scale of online trolls (Xhaka, Mustafi, etc).

Look at the abuse Giroud used to get. A plan B who would have been perfect in midweek. Some were relentless towards Ramsey. Two years on, I’m still waiting for his goals to be replaced. Some became so personal towards Ozil, they failed to notice we were left without creativity?

Our game in midweek was made for him, someone who could pick a pass.

Guess who AFTV has mentioned more than anyone since our 0-0 draw …. Bellerin. To clarify he’s a right back who kept a clean sheet. The defence done their job. You can’t hold a full back responsible for the lack of creativity. In fact it was his cross that led to our captain heading against the post.

The Spaniard didn’t even start the 1st leg, so why is he getting critiqued more than others?

If that was a Spurs fan you would question the naivety. You would laugh at Gabriel and Odegaard being over-hyped based on a couple of okay performances.

It’s not just our own players. The likes of Johnny Evans and Gary Cahill were belittled by AFTV even though they met the criteria, cheap old school defenders with leadership qualities. If you heard a Man United fan look down on defenders better than they had, would you not see the karma when they fall flat on their face?

The biggest lack of self-awareness though?

Some of these Youtubers are hinting that unless Arsenal improve, maybe they will find fun elsewhere. Maybe spend more time at the weekend with the Family.

I was expecting a Mariah Carey soundtrack to play in the background as we were told the occasions those on AFTV had to miss because of Arsenal.

Meanwhile outside of their bubble, those in the NHS, Police, Fire Service, the Army, etc, make their money and miss their children by risking their life. Complaining about missing your sons sports day doesn’t apply when watching football is your job.

Trust me, pay me to watch Arsenal, I would be grateful.

Don’t get confused, I like DT and agree with lots of his opinions, but how can he (with a straight face) say he might replace watching Arsenal with spending more time with his own team, as he gets more enjoyment from it!

The reason he has that team.

The reason they are advertised.

The reason they got sponsored.

The reason he has his own merchandise.

Arsenal!!!!!

The reason Troopz has been invited to America to record a podcast?

Arsenal!

And well done to these lads. I wish them all the best, but don’t now, having made money based on Arsenal’s decline, suggest Arsenal have cost marriages and took fathers away from children.

All of their success was built on forcing Mr Wenger out and insisting that change was needed for the better. That’s what they are known for. Not their tactical analysis, nor their ability to shout and swear (which rival fans find funny).

The grass hasn’t been proven greener. They couldn’t have been more wrong.

Which is fine. They were (and are) entitled to their opinions.

Yet if you asked for this mess. If you profited from this mess.

Don’t you dare walk away because it’s too messy for you.

 

Mr Wenger walked away in 2018.

He was hurt, said he would never forget his treatment from certain fans. But he kept his integrity, his dignity, his class.

The fans who called him names. Who thought they knew better? They have watched their club go backwards to the point we will be playing in the League Cup 2nd round next year.

If this was a movie you would say justice was done in the end. It would have been an immoral message from a director if it ended with these fans watching Arsenal lift the title.

That the man with dignity lived happily ever after, and those who betrayed him were left with mediocrity?

 

Be kind in the Comments

 

Dan

Tags Robbie Troopz Wenger

119 Comments

  1. gotanidea says:

    AFTV weren’t wrong about top four. What good is it without EPL, CL or EL trophy for seventeen years?

    I just regret about Giroud. He saved Wenger’s arse multiple times as a substitute and Wenger’s system was obviously not tailored to his strengths

    Unfortunately we had to give the three first-team striker places to Aubameyang, Lacazette and Nketiah since the beginning of this season, because of their seniority and influence in the dressing room. Arteta should be more pragmatic next season, by recruiting a towering target man who’s willing to sit on the bench

    1. Highbury Hero says:

      Troll!

      You can’t defend the play pretend manager and blame Mr Wenger at the same time. That is daylight hypocrisy.

      1. gotanidea says:

        Arteta is a licensed professional manager with a vast playing experience and has given us three FA Cup trophies as a player/ manager. Edu the Invicible and him would likely fix almost everything if they’re given another transfer window and sufficient budget

        1. Dan kit says:

          Giroud was sacrificed for Auba and look what Auba as done since he signed ,nothing short of a miracle the numbers he as done ,apart from this season (where he as had off field troubles )he’s been one of our best signings in 10 years .
          Also I’m not sure where Giroud saved wengers ass multiple times(even though that was his job ) ,wasn’t giroud signed By Wenger and given years leading our line ,I can’t recall one fan who wished we had keep him instead of signing Auba

          Auba
          Pl appearances -111
          Goals -64
          Giroud
          Pl appearances -253
          Goals -90
          I know which one I be preferred watching

          1. DaJuhi says:

            And Giroud got to lead the line, practically without competition, for 4 seasons. When he started being more of a “super sub”, he was actually sold.

          2. gotanidea says:

            Aubameyang is a world class striker, but his great effort still can’t improve our league position and Arteta’s tiki-taka football this season doesn’t suit his playing style. In my opinion, there are three options:

            A. Sack Arteta now and get a new manager whose playing style suits Aubameyang’s

            B. Keep Arteta and keep Aubameyang as the main attacker. But Arteta’s got to revert to his old defensive counter-attack system, so Aubameyang can use his pace and let another attacker hold the opposition’s CBs off

            C. Keep Arteta and relegate Aubameyang as a backup attacker or sell him. This makes Arteta able to get a new CF and use his current system

          3. Oracle Collins says:

            I am very Disappointed with Dan with all the University qualifications and experience to endup to write an article just to mention AFTV about Top four instead you could have even written about the schedule protest today…my opinion i think AFTV gives you pressure why not start your own YouTube channel if you post senseable topics we will follow you in millions you can do better you remind me of talks port .COYG #Kroenkeout#Kroenkeout 🤔

          4. Dan says:

            University qualifications ?
            I might review the protest

          5. James says:

            Can’t you see it, Wenger had to sell Giroud to buy Auba, the Kronkes did not want to dent their dividends

        2. siamois says:

          Arteta is a licensed professional manager with a vast playing experience who has given us 3 trophies” you really are full of it man!

          1. Highbury Hero says:

            Yes “with a vast playing experience” not “vast managing experience”

        3. Rashid80 says:

          Arteta’s tiki taka? What tiki taka? Are you blind?

        4. Dan says:

          Aubas not world class !
          That’s issue with our.fan base , we overhype players
          He’s good , he’s not world class
          I maintain if we dug our heels in could have kept Giroud and got Auba

          1. Highbury Hero says:

            He is world class to me.

          2. Dan says:

            We are 9th ?
            Year before 8th
            But we have one of the best strikers in world ?
            I could name 10 better strikers

          3. James says:

            He’s a world class finisher not a world class player

        5. Franklyn Oladipo says:

          I wouldn’t give them £5 to waste.

        6. King says:

          They’ve done enough damage they should pack their bags and leave

        7. Lance says:

          GAI, are Everton, Leicester and West Ham squads better than Arsenal’s? No! I don’t think so yet look at their standings on the table and ours. Something is wrong and I think the fault lies with Arteta. If Arsenal sacked Wenger and Emery for poor results, why are we keeping Arteta who has worse records than those two. It will be a waste of resources retaining Arteta. Chelsea didn’t care that Lampard was a club legend when they sacked him. Why should Arsenal be sentimental with Arteta. Please get rid of him before he destroys what is left of the great club.

          1. Dan says:

            I would say Everton and Leicester have a better first 11

    2. John Ibrahim says:

      the fans get what they wish for

      Arsenal back to where it belongs ….juz like 1995

    3. gee says:

      Arsenal now have some of the worse fans than Man utd, Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea combined.

      AFTV is worse than any of the glory hunting surrey man utd supporters of the 90’s.

      You lot asked for this so own it.

      1. ozziegunner says:

        You obviously don’t watch Football Terrace, the Newcastle United, West Ham or other fan channels.

        1. gee says:

          None of those channels forced out there most successful manager. None of them moaned at getting CL football every year, None of them moaned about playing attacking football that got FA cups and Euro places. None of them moaned at the manager for making the club money. None of them criticised their most successful manager for being loyal.

          I can remember Man utd fans, Chelsea trying to force out there most successful managers , City buying the league and the new fans they attract expect the league to be bought.

          Yeah but your right i don’t watch them other fan channels, don’t watch aftv either

          1. ozziegunner says:

            gee, thank you for your honesty at last; you make your comments based on ignorance, because you don’t watch fan channels!
            Do you know how ridiculous that looks, making comments on programs you have never seen!

          2. gee says:

            @ozziegunner

            seen enough youtube and twitter clips for me not to watch more than a few mins.

            So AFTV didnt do any of the things below –

            “None of those channels forced out there most successful manager. None of them moaned at getting CL football every year, None of them moaned about playing attacking football that got FA cups and Euro places. None of them moaned at the manager for making the club money. None of them criticised their most successful manager for being loyal. ”

            Keep defending them – shows me who you are.

    4. Logic says:

      Gotanidea, I am lost for words when it comes to you. You need help my friend. I feel like you live in some matrix like world where everything to you is not what it seems. Some of the stuff you say shows either you are doing this to wind ppl up here or you are short on brain cells. I think it’s the first one.

  2. Highbury Hero says:

    When even the so called manager of Arsenal who have all but ruined the club reputation have pulled a TMJW and blame the great Arsene for his spectacular failure makes me wonder if they read these blogs.

    1. Dan kit says:

      👍👍

    2. ThirdManJW says:

      Arsenal had been a joke for years because of Wenger. Even rival fans felt sorry for us. Clearly you don’t believe that cause and effect exists then?

      Those fans that consistently put Wenger before the club, are a joke, and not true Arsenal fans.

      1. Highbury Hero says:

        And what about you putting Arteta before the club even with the devastating damage he has done?

        The damage Arteta has done in one season is greater than Wenger’s and Emery combined. As a matter of fact Wenger’s and Emery’s damage (if there is any) are babies comparing to Arteta’s ancient being.

        1. Dan kit says:

          Some fans hey HH
          can’t see the problem in front of their eyes because of their addiction to our problems in our past .
          Imagine constantly slagging off a legend who never finished out of top 4 in 19 years but is now content with a manger who as just overseen one of the worst seasons in our clubs history .
          Some very odd people around.

          1. Highbury Hero says:

            Yes Dan calling some not fans for exactly the thing he is doing. Defending Arteta is even worse than defending Wenger or Emery.

            As much as I disagree with TMJW most of the times I didn’t take him as the one to pull you are not a fan chip (which is usually the last resort for someone having nothing more to add to the discussion). That just shows how much of a job defending Arteta is becoming.

            TmJw you don’t have to defend Arteta or Wenger or Emery but you do have to defend Arsenal. Arteta is not good for Arsenal’s and its fans health so your continuous defending him is becoming suspicious.

            Either you are part of his PR team or Wenger did something to you that you can’t easily forgive and forget. Did he perhaps deny you an autograph? If so it’s better to be open about it perhaps we can start a petition for him to correct that wrong.

      2. Franklyn Oladipo says:

        Forget about Wenger. This manager has had 18 months to turn the club round. Instead he is taking the club down. The only problem at Arsenal now is the manager.

      3. Logic says:

        TMJ, now rival fans envy us …hahaha. Another of Arteta’s blind fan boy. Do you guys have no brain? Can you not read table or you don’t know how to count?. We are 9th in league, no need to talk about Europe because Arteta made sure there is no comparison as we are now not in it and FA cups how many FA cups did Wenger win even in his so called darker years. Don’t tell me now you are going to say FA is more challenging and a bigger trophy now then it was before so Arteta winning FA cup was like winning Champions League…😅🤣😂

  3. jakseth says:

    AFTV is the consequence, not the reason.

    when a team looks consistently lost on the pitch, you have to look for the manager as the main cause.

  4. Dan kit says:

    I don’t believe the squad is the worst we’ve seen in 25 years Dan, far from it the problem lies with the management and they way they are being told to play,imagine being on that pitch on Thursday and they must have been more confused than we were watching at home .
    A team with Auba ,saka Martinelli,Pepe Laca smith Rowe leading from the front should be enough for any second rate Spanish side but we managed 1 shot in target I’m afraid that’s down to a manager who as to micro manage every last detail .
    I was hoodwinked into Believing that Arteta was the man after the fantastic end to last season but by December it became obvious that this will never work with him in charge .that squad is easy good enough for top 4 and I believe if Wenger had this set of players that is exactly where we would have been this season .
    I can’t comment on AFTV as I don’t watch it but top 4 wasn’t good enough for me as well but maybe I should have seen the change in football and been content with that because I would take that every time now .
    Shame that some fans won’t admit the same .

    1. Dan says:

      I meant more where they will finish

  5. DaJuhi says:

    First of all, most of the fans wanted Giroud to be the plan B. But he actually, unwarranted, got to lead the line for 4 SEASONS. And his competition were Welbeck and Walcott!

    Second of all, top 4 wasn’t enough back then. Now it would be progress for us but the title is what we still want, and what we wanted back then. Top for 4 would be progress but ultimately not enough.

  6. ozziegunner says:

    Dan, thank you for educating me that the reason Arsene Wenger left Arsenal and Arsenal three seasons later, is now out of Europe, out of all cups and sitting where they are in the League table is due to AFTV.
    AFTV must have a direct line to the Board room to advise them on manager selection and transfer budget, Edu on transfers ins and outs, loan deals and providing retirement for Brazilian ex Chelsea players and finally Arteta on tactics, formations, selections and in game substitutions. The power of AFTV has no bounds.
    If you watch other fan channels, such as the Football Terrace, they don’t appear to have the same power as they did in previous seasons, since Ferguson left, to disrupt Manchester United.

    1. Dan says:

      No need to thank me lol

      1. ozziegunner says:

        Dan, I was being sarcastic, and it looks like you got the joke.
        I can’t understand your obsession with Robbie and AFTV, as they are the least of Arsenal FC’s problems.

        1. Dan says:

          Zero obsession
          If they are allowed to critique arsenal why can’t I critique them ?

          1. ozziegunner says:

            Dan, for the simple reason that we have much more to be concerned about at the moment than AFTV.

          2. Dan says:

            Disagree
            What I worry about / write about has zero bearings on Arsenal’s future

  7. Joe. S says:

    Stuff and Nonsense. You rep what you sow alright but the fans had nothing to do with this abominable state.

    1. ozziegunner says:

      👍

    2. Dan says:

      Did I say they did
      I said fans like that deserve what’s happened

      1. ozziegunner says:

        Dan, those fans spent a lot of effort, time and personal coin to follow Arsenal everywhere. They are entitled to be a bit upset at Arsenal not winning anything, with the owner openly admitting that he doesn’t own the Club to win trophies.

        1. Dan says:

          Didn’t say they were
          Simply saying they were wrong that getting rid of Wenger was a good thing

          1. ken1945 says:

            Sorry, but I thought that it was the fan’s protests, empty seats and fan power that forced AW and UE out?
            Haven’t we been told that it was their actions that forced the managers out, by gleeful fans such as TMJW, Jon Fox etc etc?

            Even now, fans are still not admitting that since AW left, the club and players have been on a downward spiral… despite 17 new players and a spend of over £300,000,000.

            It doesn’t matter today what or how the club /players were when he left THREE years ago, when you absorb those figures AND the players who have left as well.

            AW and UE had nothing to do with the way we played Thursday night, or the fact that 25 years of european football has come to an end, or that we have recorded the worst home stats since the 1929/30season if we lose just one more home game.

            It’s down to those in charge TODAY namely MA and Edu.

  8. 03 gooner says:

    We get it you don’t like aftv lol
    But on a more serious note, I think the frustration some fans had with wenger was the fact he guided us to prem titles before the Emirates era so then top 4 became ‘not good enough’. Now the board/owner didn’t back him with funds and best players were subsequently sold, so toppling man utd/City and Chelsea was always going to be a tall order. So when when compared with emery and arteta expection would naturally be higher as wenger reach the previous heights and was starting from a higher base the following two.

    However, I do think the year leicester won it we should have and the fact that the usual contenders(City United Chelsea Liverpool were floundering that season) was a opening for us. Now I don’t know who’s decision whether it was wenger’s, the board or both collectively to sign just only cech that summer, which ultimately cost us, I still feel going up against spurs and Leicester with ranieri and pochettino(no trophies previously between them) that wenger’s previous Premier league winning experience should have been made the difference to see us over the line but it wasn’t to be.

    Having said that the fans on aftv (which I regularly watch admittedly) and fans outside of the platform did cross the line in their wenger expletives, personal attacks and so on, although I stress Robbie didn’t always agree with what was said and was more impartial than is the perception because people think what such as dt troopz etc say is identical to robbie’s own opinions which he rarely states openly admittedly.

    P.s I was neither wenger in or out, at start of every season I always hoped we would all see him lift the prem title again and eventually the champions league aswell but it wasn’t s meant to be In the end.

  9. Shortboygooner says:

    The truth is we all believed we could do better than wenger. Hindsight is something that im sure alot of arsenal fans are thinking about.

    I was discussing with some fellow gooners is we got EK would we have wenger back and we all agreed to have him for 2 or 3 years to restore us and have Henry or viera as a 2nd in command would be brilliant.

    Wenger had his quirks. Aaron Ramsey in rm and crap but atleast he never played xaka in lb hahaha.

    You cannot blame AFTV. This world is sick and enjoys people acting foolish basically. Love Robbie the other guys are a bit suspect. But they just say mostly what ot kf us think at the time. They do make us a banter club and they do make more lines when arsenal loose. However if we had the right tools and were winning g and where we should be after being the 2nd/3rd most successful club in the lrem then they wouldn’t have a leg ti stand on.

    1. ozziegunner says:

      Sbg, you need to watch AFTV, win, lose or draw. They are committed and travel the UK, Europe and the world, in all weathers spending time and money following the Arsenal.

      1. John Ibrahim says:

        thats how they make their income….

        own channel tv and etc….without viewers they would be jobless

        1. ozziegunner says:

          They all have jobs, from what I can see except Robbie, who left council surveying for full time YouTube.

    2. Dan says:

      I would contest the first line
      There are many who predicted we would go backwards day Wenger left

      1. ozziegunner says:

        Dan, it oesn’t say much about the strength of a club that depends so much on a manager, who will not live forever.
        Arsenal was a successful Club before Arsene Wenger and hopefully will be again in the future with appropriate ownership and management.

  10. Stephanie says:

    With Wenger (after a wonderful few years. I am grateful to Wenger for that) we went 13 years without a PL, CL, EL trophy and watched Leicester, Chelsea, United, City win PL and Liverpool, Chelsea win Champions League. Then we dropped out of the Top 4. He had to go

    We will get back in to the Top 4 again and we will win the PL again. We just haven’t hired a good enough Manager in my opinion. Also there is the Kronke problem

    But there’s hope for the future. 💕

  11. Vithalvant says:

    All this blaming Wenger for current failures is incorrect. Most of the players in current squad are not his purchases. May be Xaca & couple youngsters but those are the better players in the current team!Wenger in later years might have made some mistakes but those who took control from him have done worst.Who decide to buy Partley for 40M , give bigger package to AB & some other strange decisions?

  12. Grimlar says:

    Feel free to bash AFTV, never watched it, never will. But don’t go peddling the idea that it wasnt time for Mr Wenger to leave. He said himself afterwards that he had stayed too long.

    As you noted Wenger was our greatest manager, and arguably better even in his twilight years than either of the two managers who have come after. That doesnt mean it wasnt time for everybody to move on.

    The problem has been that Arsenal have not picked the right manager to replace him.

    Emery, whilst a talented mid table manager, doesnt seem to have been able to do it at a bigger club, maybe a little like Moyes at ManU. He had problems at PSG, lost the dressing room. Same at Arsenal.

    Arteta had no track record, big ideas and questionable judgement. Exactly what you would expect from a novice. I cant think of any other industry that would give a total novice control of a business valued at £2billion that needed a structural and personnel overhaul.

    The Arsenal job needed someone who had overseen a rebuild/refresh of a club before. Someone who found the day to day decisions easy because they could rely on their experience and judgement. Who would have the backing of the players and the backroom staff because of their long experience and the amount of silverware they had won.

    I would love to be wrong, but Arteta hasnt changed my opinion much in the last 18 months and I dont expect him to do it in the next 6 months. If he stays then all I see is another transitional/wasted/midtable season.

    1. ozziegunner says:

      Grimlar, Emery at PSG won the second most number of domestic trophies 8 (from 9 contended) behind Blanc with 11 and has a higher win percentage than Blanc, Ancellotti, Tuchel and Ponchettino at that little Champions League Club PSG. But don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story that Emery “doen’t seem to have been able to do it at a bigger club”.

      1. Dan says:

        Winning the French title doesn’t mean you can succeed in prem
        That’s why he didn’t succeed in prem

        1. ozziegunner says:

          Dan, don’t disagree, just putting forward the fact that PSG is not a small mid table club and Emery was successful there relative to other well respected managers, such as Thomas Tuchel. He also achieved better results in his last season, than Arsene Wenger did in his last for what it is worth. In his second season he was not supported by the Board, and was sacked when Arsenal were 8th.
          Emery may have done as well as Tuchel has at Chelsea, where Abranovich supports managers to win. Tuchel may not thrive at Arsenal, but we’ll never know.

          1. Dan says:

            Well we do know ?
            He finished 5th , lost 4-1 in Baku and we were about 10th when he was sacked

  13. A J says:

    We last won the league 16 years, 358 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes ago !

    Since then our sole aim seems largely to have been maintaining sides that have been capable of achieving the 2nd to 4th positions finishing ;

    2002 / 2005 2nd
    4
    4
    3
    4
    3
    4
    3
    4
    4
    3
    2
    5
    6
    5
    8
    2020 / 2021 10th

    Although of course understanding the logic behind it (in certain terms), I have never been comfortable with the notion of starting a season knowing full well Arsenal Football Club are miles off winning the league i.e. striving for the top slot.

    Working within a moral bubble of how one perceives football should be run on a day to day basis, has simply led to a position of us being left way behind.

    No …… 2nd – 4th should NOT be acceptable for Arsenal Football Club !!

    But where exactly has our bar been set for the last 16 and counting years ?

    And that bar seems to be getting lower and lower by the minute.

    1. Rashid80 says:

      2nd to fourth is indeed acceptable when you put the challenge! Remember that only one team will be crowned champions.. That season when we finished second wasn’t good enough because we bottled it.. Wasted a transfer window getting only a GK and lost our top spot after chrismas..

      1. A J says:

        Hi Rashid80.

        In my opinion, I repeat 2nd to 4th is not acceptable (in sporting terms as opposed to financial) for Arsenal Football Club.

        ” Remember that only one team will be crowned champions ”

        So you roll over and simply ACCEPT for the past SIXTEEN YEARS that will not be Arsenal ??

        It may be a generational thing, and I of course accept the game and it’s financing has changed enormously over the years.

        But I come from an era when you were “forced” to try and achieve the top slot, as only that guaranteed entry into the “European Cup”.

        But equally, you were crowned Champions of England – not runners up and forget 3rd & 4th.

        So whilst 2 – 4 is considered “successful” nowadays, for me it can lead to a false sense of security allowing mediocrity to set in.

        “Speculate to Accumulate” – and we haven’t for years.

        1. ken1945 says:

          AJ, what you haven’t talked about, which I find quite unbelievable, is how the game changed for our club, when kronkie took over – Abramovitch bought Chelsea just hours before they were going into liquidation and the Arab oil money transforming a club that had foundered ib the third tier of English football, into what they are today.

          How can any sane and thinking person not see that ANY Arsenal manager would not be able to compete on a level playing field?

          On top of that, having to sell your best players each season in order to help fund the new stadium and then one should understand WHY those of us who support AW are now seeing how the chickens have come home to roost.

          1. A J says:

            Hi Ken.

            Thanks for the reply, and hope you are keeping well.

            This from a very SANE THINKING PERSON (well most of the time).

            And pray tell why we have not been competing on a level playing field ?

            You obviously have never bothered to follow any of my posts on here as to my stance on squad investment and the ownership, as I have been very robust on my views on these matters.

            In fact I was argued with at length on here recently in saying that in my view only massive investment (spent correctly) will rejuvenate this failing squad.

            Of course simply throwing money at our current multitude of problems is not the sole answer – mentality, correct player recruitment, the owner, the structure under said owner and so on all require close scrutiny.

            And you are correct, in my humble opinion NO MANAGER could get any where achieving the top slot with this squad , and under the financial constraints placed upon manager at our place.

            SO A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD IT IS NOT !

            You honestly think I do not know this ?????

            This is why I remain unconvinced simply firing and replacing any manager right now, whilst we retain this current squad, and expecting the new guy to work within the current framework is not the answer.

            I’m afraid the best way I can amplify my point is to be crude ;

            “You can’t polish a turd”.

            This is why I believe both Emery and Arteta have been dealt a raw deal, although some of Mikel’s decisions of late have been extremely questionable and open to question.

            Also what I find “quite unbelievable” for a man of your standing on here you didn’t see I was sticking entirely to the point of the article and responding accordingly – which was in essence to remind you “Is Top Four Good Enough for Arsenal Football Club”

            NO !

            There you go, perhaps a one word answer may have been better.

            To insinuate I do not comprehend the many other (multiple) factors affecting our ability to challenge for the top slot, is quite frankly embarrassing on your part.

            The age and experience card cannot be played with me I’m afraid Ken – I have been around the club, and game, a very long time at all levels – playing, coach, manager and admin’ mainly giving time to kids (very successfully I might add).

            When you just simply go to watch a semi professional side, and after a season or two end up being invited to meet the manager and chairman in his office ” for a chat” – you are not a complete prat or indeed AN INSANE PERSON ?

            So sorry Ken, I do completely understand the wider point of this article – but simply geared my answer to the question posed.

            Take care.

    2. Diction Hagoi says:

      To blame AFTV for pointing out Arsenal’s shortcomings and mismanagement is laughable, AFTV is always happy when Arsenal wins and we are not visitors in Jerusalem to fail to recognise the cmplacency which marked the latter years of Wengers Arsenal management:It was this complacency that largely attributed to Arsenal’s current lethargic state.

      Arsene Wenger was a great manager whose enormous contribution to the legendary status of Arsenal cannot be downplayed, however, Wenger connived with the owners to bring down Arsenal to its current state and to blame AFTV for pointing this out is unfair.

  14. Grantygooner says:

    Emotive crap about Wenger. He should have left years sooner as he had run out of ideas and the other clubs had eventually caught up with us. He had nothing new to offer and we should have been chasing Klopp when he left Dortmund. The boys on AFTV are offering their opinions on the situation at Arsenal, we are all expressing our opinions on this website. We are all expressing our opinions about everybody else’s opinions. I therefore find it difficult to squarely place the blame on AFTV and their contributors. Concentrate our efforts on getting rid of the Kronkes not fighting each other.

  15. Tactical Gunner says:

    For me Arsenal as a club needs this ugly reality for progress to follow.. Every club that is rebuilding either goes cheap/lasting or fast/expensive..
    Teams have gone either ways in time past with relative success rate.. In my best opinion, none of us are billionaires.

    1. A J says:

      @Tactical Gunner.

      ” none of us are billionaires ” – speak for yourself !

      🙂 🙂 🙂

  16. AaronD says:

    I don’t understand why any football fan pays attention to AFTV. It’s neither constructive, nor insightful. Why support them by watching or subscribing?

    1. ozziegunner says:

      Aaron, your choice, but others have the right to make choices too.

  17. Highbury Heroes says:

    Alright, it may sound ironic to say this right now considering our struggles but it was certainly not okay to “only play for the Top 4”. When you only finish in the Top 4, fans are bound to question about why aren’t we challenging for the title. As fans, we always speculate about the future. Remember when Arteta won the FA Cup and fans demanded Top 4, it was considered reasonable and justified but. Of course people can be Captain Hindsight by saying “Oh well, you can’t even finish in the Top 8, let alone Top 4” but so what?
    What we’re doing right now should have no bearing to what we did 2-3 years ago. Our last League Title was in 2004. What’ve we done after that? “Only” finished in the Top 4.
    This is why this is a joke of an article. To reiterate, IT WASN’T UNJUSTIFIED FOR FANS TO DEMAND S LEAGUE TITLE WHEN WERE PLAYING ONLY TO SECURE TOP 4

    1. ozziegunner says:

      HH, Arsenal always appeared to be 1 or 2 players short of a premier side during those years, particularly in never replacing Gilberto Silva at DM. 2015/16 finishing second to Leicester City was the classic lost opportunity.

    2. Highbury Hero says:

      Admn is there any rule here nameright infringement?

      1. Highbury Hero says:

        *about nameright infringement

      2. Highbury Heroes says:

        Why exactly?
        Like I said, I’ve been using this name for a lot of time

      3. jon fox says:

        So many people use vartiations of the name Gooner, Gunner, Highbury etc Why not be brave and upfront and have the guts to use your OWN REAL NAME!
        Then you would have no copy cats , not that they are alone in being copy cats in reality, since all those, including YOU HH,who use these variations are doing precisely the same thing. Which is hiding behind an alias! Unlike me ! Whatever are you so afraid about, I have to wonder!

  18. Highbury Heroes says:

    “You reap what you sow”
    LOL, as if fans are responsible for the current failings
    And what’s the deal with AFTV?
    Why is AFTV dragged into everything when it’s only a Fan Channel…They’re entitled to their opinions

    1. Highbury Hero says:

      You should find another name pal.

      1. Highbury Heroes says:

        What?
        Dude, I’m using this name for quite some while…Heck, I’ve even got a YouTube channel with the same name

        1. Admin Pat says:

          Hi HH2,
          Yes you may have a YouTube channel in that name, but you are only recently arrived as a JA commenter, whereas HH1 has been here a long time.

          But you do have a … ES at the end, which is enough to distinguish you apart in my mind.

          Can we all be happy with that?

          1. Highbury Hero says:

            It’s okay with me though I can’t say I am happy.

            Can you share your channel link HH2. You will gain one subscriber (I know its not much) if you have good Arsenal content.

      2. Highbury Heroes says:

        Here’s my YouTube channel bro
        https://youtube.com/channel/UCjIuwDftiqkEz_eOu2josmw

        1. Admin Pat says:

          Hmmm, that channel is only six weeks old!

          1. Highbury Hero says:

            😂😂😂

            I will keep my promise and subscribe. Wishing him all the best in growing the channel.

          2. Highbury Heroes says:

            But like I said, I had no idea that there’s another guy called Highbury Hero…You see, I don’t really follow the Comments until very recently

    2. Dan says:

      So am I

  19. Franklyn Oladipo says:

    Forget about Wenger. This manager has had 18 months to turn the club round. Instead he is taking the club down. The only problem at Arsenal now is the manager.

  20. Martin Mwenda says:

    Wenger had to leave seriously he could have signed somebody on January to push on and win the 16/17 league nothing.Honestly Wenger would have been sacked the time arsenal lost 8-2 to Manchester united.Arsenal club has not have any ambition for years I mean look before 2010 teams like Chelsea and Mancity were nothing look where they are now? honestly it’s no wonder players like nasri,Fabregas,Van Persie,Chamberlain and Sanchez forced their way out of
    the club.How can a team like Leicester come from the championship and win the title the following season?this was a heaven sent chance for us to go for the league who did we sign that season?just a goal keeper!?honestly sometimes I just felt that Wenger’s ambition was to win FA cups qualify for top 4 and that’s just it.AFTV have nothing to do with the club’s decline they are just frustrated fans doing their job.

    1. ken1945 says:

      Honestly Martin, if everything you say is true, why haven’t UE or MA done better?
      17 new players, including a new club transfer fee and spending over £300,000,0000 since gazidis took over that side of things and yet you still quote Arsene Wenger?

      1. ozziegunner says:

        Ken, just a reminder that Unai Emery finished 5th (an Aubameyang penalty miss away from 4th) and reached the final of the Europa League, in his first season. Arsene Wenger finished 6th and made the Europa League semi final in his last season.
        As for Mikel Arteta, well………?

  21. gee says:

    Arsenal now have some of the worse fans than Man utd, Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea combined.

    AFTV is worse than any of the glory hunting surrey man utd supporters of the 90’s.

    You lot asked for this so own it.

    1. ozziegunner says:

      gee, you obviously don’t watch any Manchester United (“Football Terrace”), Newcastle United, West Ham etc fan channels.

    2. ozziegunner says:

      gee, you admitted above, that you are making assertions about fan channels that you don’t even watch!

  22. Rusty says:

    Dan, great piece. Love it.

  23. Logic says:

    Great Article and we’ll concluded at the end. What is happening now with arsenal is a slap in the faces of all the fans who abused Wenger and in their small peanut size mind though they know better. Enjoy the mid table and out of Europe. We are here not only because of owner but fans like these as well.

    1. ken1945 says:

      Logic 100%👍👌

    2. A J says:

      Hi Logic.

      Nothing but respect for Arsene full stop.

      Just a question for you.

      Working under Kroenke, what could even he (A W) have done to stop the slide to ” mid table and out of Europe” ?

      Interested in your response.

  24. Reggie says:

    What an awful article dan, with more spin than a wheel. We are where we are because no1 wenger stayed well passed his sell by date and started the rot. No2 he was replaced by Emery who on the face of it looked a shrewd signing but could not communicate properly in English. No3 Arteta was not a shrewd signature at all and we are where we are because he isn’t up to the job. Behind all of this we have an owner who has no idea at all how to run a Premier league football club. What would of happened if we kept wenger? What would of happened if we kept Giroud? What would of happened if Ozil was left to do what he wanted? I will tell you the answer to any of your spin, we wouldn’t be in top 4 and probably not far from where we are now. But you dont know that and i dont know that. Fact is we are where we are because Arteta is not managing this club well, that is the main reason without any spin to suit.

    1. Dan says:

      But we know in his whole time he finished outside top 4 twice and never outside top 6
      So going off his record , high chance we wouldn’t have fallen this low
      He also would have kept Ramsey and ozil.

      1. Reggie says:

        Dan, twice in his final two seasons and playing football that was insipid. He was heading down, not sideways or up, down, over a 8 year period, the graph was down.

        1. Dan says:

          But not this far down ?

  25. Joe. S says:

    Concur with you Reggie that this article totally sucks. It’s woken up the AKBs to come storming back to blame everyone else but their man. Arsenal are where they are because of Wegner’s collaboration with the Kroenkes. Failure to invest in the team, failure to develop players, allowing the likes of Gnarby to leave, playing players out of position, failure to sustain a winning culture, bringing the likes of Mustafi, Xhaka, Elneny to the club when they should have been chasing Eden Hazard and on and on. Even fan favorites Kolsceny and Giroud were poor compromises. Giroud was a dumbed down version of Van Persie, king of the tap ins at best and often out of synch with Ozil and Sanchez who provided him with opportunity after opportunity. As for captain Koz.,the heart of Arsenal’s defence.Well he is the reason why Arsenal eventually finished out of the top six. He was out run, out thought and out musceled too many times in that joke pairing of a central defence. In the end Wegner was a con man lacking ambition and energy to regenerate the club. He had to go. The fact that he stayed too long is part of the pain we fans are now enduring. You get what you ask for alright,but it is you AKBs who who remain in denial.

    1. Dan says:

      Did you say Wenger couldn’t develop players ?

  26. Dan says:

    Can I ask if he was so bad why only two years we finished outside top 4 and magically since he left we are on course for our worst finish in 25 years ( like last season (

    1. Joe.s says:

      Not in his final years. Look at Walcott and The Ix, who never improved from their Southampton promise.

      1. Dan says:

        Didn’t Walcott score 100 goals for us ?
        The ox sold for 40 million ?
        Śo he must have developed them a bit

  27. The-Real-Vieira-Lynn-4ever says:

    What a terribly sad and highly misleading article that attempts, yet fails once again, to place the blame on a handful of street pundits and those who rightfully, I might add, called for this club to finally follow through with their longstanding yet undelivered promises by hitting the much-needed reset button

    the fact that this organization and it’s indifferent owner failed to take this process seriously isn’t the fault of anyone but his own and those he put in charge of this unmitigated shite show…so stop talking nonsense about “reaping what we sow” or constantly reiterating the ridiculous notion that we would be sitting pretty if only Arsene was still roaming the sidelines…it’s a ludicrous hot-take with absolutely no basis in reality

    furthermore, how many times can you use the less than convincing Cahill/Evans argument, it’s not like either one of these slightly above average defenders would have righted this slowly-sinking ship(btw Wenger didn’t rate them either, so shouldn’t you be harping on him about ANOTHER missed transfer/recruitment opportunity)

    so please stop with the insanely jealous rants about AFTV and the increasingly more common rubbish about a manager from a bygone era, as most non-Kool-Aid drinking fans clearly recognize by now that he lost his managerial magic the day he got in bed with our absentee landlord

    1. jon fox says:

      TRVL, YOUR FINAL PARAGRAPH HAS RARELY BEEN BETTERED ON JA FOR PROFOUND TRUTH.
      I would only add that was the same time he lost David Dein, his crutch, his support and dynamic and vital visionary too.

      I too have little time for the foul mouthed AFTV lot. But to blame THEM for our demise is lunacy.

      1. Dan says:

        Whisper it quietly Jon ….I never blamed them for our situation I simply said the idea that ‘ arsenal fans don’t deserve this ‘ isn’t true

      2. The-Real-Vieira-Lynn-4ever says:

        Thanks Jon…the very notion that this could be misconstrued as some sort of chicken and the egg argument is ludicrous…the rise of AFTV was a direct result of the actions or lack thereof of both our owner and our complicit manager

        as for the whole Dein gig, I’ve spent considerably time and energy expressing my utter admiration for this innovative renaissance man of sorts…I personally believe that if he had stayed on and Wenger left, after the stadium was built, we would have probably fared better, as he would have never lowered his standards…there’s no doubt in my mind that he would have found another viable managerial candidate, much like he did with Arsene, and he would have likewise found some highly inventive ways to generate alternative revenue streams during those austere times, following the building of the Emirates

        finally, the very fact that someone could even suggest that the fans deserve “this” simply because they wanted their club and it’s owner to aspire to greater things, especially considering the manner in which they have financially supported this organization over the proceeding years, is so petty and childish

        it’s not our fault that they haven’t managed to get things right…let’s face it, ridding our selves of Wenger’s sloppy seconds hasn’t even been fully completed, as we still have the underwhelming Xhaka and Bellerin on the books, at high wages I might add

        it would be different if we, as fans, had some sort of role in the hiring process, but that certainly isn’t the case…not to mention, it’s a greasy comment to attack those who wanted to remain hopeful that maybe just maybe a 3-time Europa champion or a former Gunner and Pep protégé might have figured things out

        that said, this discussion probably wouldn’t even be taking place if Arteta had stayed the “rebuild” course, following the FA, and not purchased Willian and sided with the senior players…right now we would probably be discussing the hopes for the future, after a year of watching our prospects get some valuable minutes, and debating about who we should bring in to fill our obvious needs…now I’m sure some would be griping, as results would have undoubtedly been mixed, but at least everyone would have known full-well from the offing that this was all part of the building process

        1. Dan says:

          Yeah I still think some fans deserve it lol

          1. The-Real-Vieira-Lynn-4ever says:

            Nice try LD

  28. Dan says:

    So thought of an example
    Go 5 mins in approx
    See the arrogance , lack of humility, over reaction , lack of knowledge
    When a fan does that they deserve karma
    Mocks man u for being midtable
    Says arteta is better then Ole and Gabriel is better then Mguire – lack of knowledge scary
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UiftBVrW62w&t=502s

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