Mikel Arteta’s Arsenal: A Vision Coming to Fruition? by Goonerboy
Hey fellow Gooners, gather around because boy, do I have a story to tell you! From the moment Mikel Arteta took the reins at Arsenal, he was crystal clear about his vision for our beloved club. He proclaimed with unwavering conviction: “We have to have passion, we have to be dominant, we have to be aggressive, you know, we have to play in the opponent’s territory as much as we want – I want both, I want to attack them as much as possible, I want to prevent them attacking me as much as possible.”
Why am I bringing this up now? Our performances and stats since the New Year have been nothing short of outstanding, and it reminded me of what our manager said at the genesis of his career as our manager, I could remember because I watched that interview every night. I remember imagining what an achievement it would be if those visions could be actualized.
And let me tell you, Gooners, Arteta wasn’t just paying lip service. He’s been walking the talk, leading a revolution at the Emirates that’s been nothing short of exhilarating. It’s like watching the perfect blend of Pep Guardiola’s masterful control and Jürgen Klopp’s high-octane, pressing style. Yes, Arteta, our very own footballing alchemist, has been mixing elements from these two modern-day coaching titans, creating a spellbinding potion that has the Arsenal faithful dreaming big again.
If you pay close attention to Arteta’s interviews in his early days, he likes to refer to Klopp’s and Liverpool’s way of doing things. I always asked myself, “Is he trying to be like Klopp?” No, he has a crazier idea! What do you think about the infusion of Pep and Klopp’s philosophies?
Now, if you’re looking for proof of Arteta’s transformative powers and how he’s infused both Pep’s and Klopp’s philosophies into our Arsenal, look no further than the words of Pep Lijnders, Klopp’s right-hand man at Liverpool. Lijnders, in an ode to Arteta’s influence, remarked, “He is transforming the club [Arsenal]. There isn’t a bigger compliment in football.” This coming from a man who’s seen Liverpool rise to the pinnacle of European football under Klopp’s guidance speaks volumes about the respect and admiration Arteta has garnered among the coaching elite.
The story gets even more fascinating. Imagine a world where the assistant to Guardiola and the assistant to Klopp joined forces at Arsenal. It almost happened! Arteta, in his boldness, reached out to Lijnders to be his lieutenant at Arsenal. “Imagine the assistant of Pep Guardiola and the assistant of Jurgen Klopp at Arsenal. What a crazy thought,” Lijnders shared in his book, reflecting on the staggering potential of such an alliance. Though Lijnders politely declined, opting to continue his journey with Liverpool, this episode underscores the high regard in which Arteta is held and his audacious vision for our club.
Arteta’s approach is not just about tactics and game plans; it’s about embodying the spirit of Arsenal, about uniting a club and its global fanbase around a shared dream. It’s about reigniting the flame that has always defined Arsenal: grace, ambition, and an unwavering commitment to playing beautiful football.
So, as we stand today, watching Arteta’s Arsenal take shape, it’s clear we’re witnessing something special. A blend of Guardiola’s tactical astuteness and Klopp’s fiery passion, all wrapped up in the heart and soul of Arsenal’s rich heritage. The journey under Arteta has been a rollercoaster, with highs that remind us of our Invincible past and lows that only serve to strengthen our resolve.
The transformation unfolding before our eyes is nothing short of spectacular. Arteta’s vision for our club is materializing into reality, and it is a privilege to witness – consider the countless individuals who share lofty ambitions for themselves only to falter in realization. Here stands Arteta, not just envisioning but realizing these dreams with the magnitude of an entire football club – our club. It is truly remarkable.
I don’t care how long and how much it has taken him to have us compete again, all I care about is we are up there now, competing and rattling top teams and it’s all because this “rookie” knew what he was saying and he is doing the talk!
Now to those who would say “We haven’t won anything yet” and “He is very bad in Europe” All I will say to you is; you are allowed to enjoy the journey mates, just try it – because under this man, we are going to be winning and it may be begun this very season!
To all the Gooners out there, let’s buckle up and enjoy the ride. With Arteta at the helm, drawing from the very best of Pep and Klopp, the future is bright. The vision is coming to fruition, and it’s a beautiful sight to behold. Here’s to hoping the transformation under Arteta continues to flourish, leading Arsenal back to the summit of English and European football. Cheers to that, Gooners!
Goonerboy
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I agree. Trust the process! Arteta has done a great job and now we all get to enjoy the fruits of the labour. COYG!
Great article!!
I believe every single Arsenal fan had their doubts about MA, including you and me Goonerboy!!!
But he’s stuck to his guns and brought our club together in a way that I never thought possible.
He alienated sections of the fans with his treatment of certain players, while another section were clamouring for his head over the signing of Havertz, Jorginho and Raya.
He backed the owners, even after the “super league” debacle and galvanised another section of the fans, when he took the PGMOL to task over decisions being made.
I, for one, thought he was the second coming one week and the devil incarnate the next and couldn’t decide what side of the fence was the right one!!
Of course I want us to win trophies, but even if we don’t, I feel that we really have got our Arsenal back – back to where we belong both internally and with the WHOLE fanbase.
It’s taken a lot of ups and downs to get here, but I’m sure there is more to come.
Merci Mikel!!
Regardless of what success Arteta may or may not bring us in the future in the form of trophies, his biggest achievement will be giving life to the Emirates Stadium finally making it feel like our home.
Tally Ho!
I tried to imagine you reading that article out loud Goonerboy and I decided that you were a cheerleader
Arteta impressed me immediately and that was without a ball being kicked. Being an assistant isn’t the same as the boss and it was up and down at times. A lot of people on JA expected instant success which apart from the FA Cup hasn’t fully materialised. Considering how long Man Utd have been in the doldrums, Arteta has proven to be an excellent choice. Wholesale changes upstairs have also brought about a new level of confidence and the support shown by them has to be given full credit.
Both the owners, executives and management seem to be at one. I stress that patience was required and looks like it is being rewarded
Honestly I will never have respect for him as a talented manager after spending and losing a total of 1 billion pounds and nothing to show for it now into his fifth year. Sadly he will continue to spend big and still we don’t look the complete package.
To me he is just another Pep or Mourinho, checkbook managers who I don’t have any respect too either because they have never proven themselves in a place where resources are scarce.
My respect will always be to the Wengers and Ranieris of yesteryear and the Alonsos and Emerys of today.
I don’t approve of buying trophies and I never will.
HH
Think about what you have written. Why on earth does it matter about Pep working with the best.? How would it have gone down at City or Barcelona if Steve Bruce had become their manager? How about Pulis? Can’t see either of those two bringing success year after year. I am not a fan of Mourinho as a person, but his record is amazing. Look how many times he has won the Champions’League Porto aren’t exactly dripping in money.
Funny how you respect Emery so much. DIdn’t he manage cash strapped PSG?
You only appear these days to critique Arteta, and have been anonymous after our recent wins in the League. Why is that then? Of course, it is because he is a cheque book manager.
Must be that suep ! He is waiting the next time we drop points. Come on our checkbook manager , thanks for paying our fans to be happy and the Emirates has it’s voice back, how much did that cost!?
How is he not a checkbook manager? Give me a convincing argument. Lets see if its as easy as calling people dishonest.
SueP,
“You only appear these days to critique Arteta, and have been anonymous after our recent wins in the League.”
I wont criticize him when he is winning because he is doing his job as one of the best paid managers in the world. for the salary he is paid, he should be winning every game.
When he lose then I can criticize him. I am no different from most Arteta supporters (you excluded) who too go anonymous when we are on the losing run. It is even worse for them because it shows the support is in good times only.
”How would it have gone down at City or Barcelona if Steve Bruce had become their manager? ”
Before we talk about other managers we have to always remember after being given 1 billion, 5 years of patience, trust and support Arteta is still with 0 trophies. He is still no better than Steve Bruce. Its not like he is a treble winner.
Give any manager 1 billion and 5 years be it Steve Bruce or Pulis, they too will be contending for the title. But winning it is a different story.
“Funny how you respect Emery so much. DIdn’t he manage cash strapped PSG?”
As I said earlier he has proven himself with scarce resources. Had he been given what Arteta has been given we would have already achieved by now what will take Arteta 10 to 15 years to achieve (if the Kroenkes will be that patient).
HH
I just hope we don’t get to read anything from you in the future then, if Arteta keeps winning!!
What a nonsense to not show your support for OUR manager based on such flimsy beliefs. Our manager and our team.
I can’t imagine a single manager who wouldn’t want to work in a similar environment to Arteta. Not always mega bucks signings but suitable. Let’s wait and see how the season ends up. Arteta is up against two of the best and so far has shown he is more than capable of being amongst them
It makes me feel proud of our club to see them competing
Did you just call me useless ?
Please explain MR VAR IS AWAYS AGAIST US ….
What you have to remember little man is that AFC means Arsenal football club not Arteta fan club .
Now get back in what ever cave you crawled out of before you get me banned again .
PS ,Pat as you can see I didn’t start this but I won’t stand anyone calling me useless or whatever other insults come my way ,no need to bring me into his childish arguments.
Keep winning doesnt mean anything when there is nothing tangible to show for it.
The club is in good run so I am happy with the results and have nothing to say about it.
And just for your information I used to criticise Wenger as much as I do Arteta when he made bad signings, or go on the losing run.
What do you want me to do post 100 comments chearleading Arteta? I think there are more than enough of those to last a lifetime.
It’s not a requirement to put Arteta above the club to be Arsenal supporter.
Let’s say I don’t like Arteta so what? Is there a rule that I should like someone?
Have I criticized you for throwing Ramsdale under the bus for no improvement goalkeeper?
Were you so fierce in your support to Wenger and Emery to their last days?
And why are they flimsy beliefs? Money has sucked the soul out of the game. We were critical (and still are)of Chelsea and Man City but under Arteta we are just same like them.
I won’t be a hypocrite if I support the same model at Arsenal I so despise on rival clubs.
And lastly Arteta being a checkbook manager is a fact not an opinion.
Why would I suggest that you should cheerleader Arteta?
Most of us comment on a win with joy. We want to comment on success. Why would you not want to do so? Odd in my book
I had a different view on Wenger as his latter years were not his finest. I was not a vociferous Wenger out person as I had too much respect for what he had achieved.. However, I thought that Emery, who was a well established manager, had made a mess of the job and a change was necessary.
As for Raya, I have no problem with him at all. I have not thrown Ramsdale under the bus. You may think so, but it was Arteta who decided that he was not the goalkeeper that he wanted for the future.
I don’t doubt that money has sucked the life out of football. One of just a minority of views we can agree on. Unfortunately, there doesn’t look like there will be a resumption of the good old days. Just like it was when I could go with my Mum and Dad to the clock end at Highbury in the late 60’s It’s gone now.
In answer to your so called statement of fact, I disagree as it is your opinion, and not mine.
@HH, please give the definiton of a so called cheque book manager?
Is it a manager, who has a min. of £ to his disposal? What minimum?
Is it nett spend or gross spend?
Is it compared to the rest of the managers in the league? Or compared to the managers of the clubs, we are mainly competing against, i.e. top 6?
Is Ten Hag a cheque book manager? Was Moyes, when he was at Man U, but not since he was sacked?
Solskjaer?
Pochettino now, but not at Spurs?
Postecoglu?
Klopp?
Why isn’t Emery a cheque book manager? Plenty of money was spent on new players, when he was here, and Villa are also quite a big spender now.
Or has it to do with the number of players in your team, you have bought within xx transfer windows?
Is there a definition at all, since you can call it a fact?
HH One of your comments that I CAN, DO, AND CONSTANTLY WRITE IN AGREEMENT, that “money has sucked the soul out of the game”.
I wrestly everyday of my football supporting life with my own sheer hypocrisy of EVEN NOW still supporting a club that is almost as bad as any other club ,in worshipping HUGE MONEY AND SCANDALOUSLY HIGH WAGES.
IF, in some fantasy world, I could change things, I would IMMEDIATELY ENFORCE a wage and transfer absolute ceiling of no more than TEN PERCENT of the current wage and transfer average.
That would mean no fans anywhere ever need to pay more than £15 to watch top level football. Less still for kids and disabled fans.
That would mean top players like SAKA STILL EARNED MANY TIMES MORE MONEY THAN THEY COULD EVER EARN OUTSIDE FOOTBALL.
And would bring back the ability for ordinary non rich folk to watch and also to follow top level football free from moral guilt at condoning GROSS GREED!
IF ONLY……!! SIGH!
Steve bruce? A lot you have no idea about. Anyway, we have a squad that is worth one billion thanks to their quality not what it cost to assemble it. Chelsea is the team assembled with a billion pound, languishing in mid-table and could’nt beat Liverpool’s feeder’s team at the league cup final. more to our upsurge than money, you obviously have no clue about that unfortunately. Not just any manager can build a competitive team with a lot financial backing as you ignorantly claimed.
Not sure where the “10 to 15 years to achieve” success is coming from though. I guess you don’t rate him at all.
Until I see a premier league or champions league or the FA Cup trophy with his chosen players I won’t rate him at all.
Why should I and why should you?
You can at least see he has achieved top four and competing with the likes of Pep and Klopp, you guys gave him no chance of attaining, watch him take the next step.
Vamos, so is being in the top four now seen as an achievement under MA?
Why wasn’t that the case with AW then, or did you see it in the same light as I do?
Ken
Many will say the level of competition is different, or money in the league is way more than Wenger.
However, they don’t talk about Sir Alex and the resources of Utd at that time. Or Abromvich at Chelsea, or Jose M. also coaching in PL.
Arteta has Pep and Klopp, Wenger had Sir Alex and Jose M. But many ignore that.
Lastly, 20 consecutive years in top 4 and CL, which people say “didn’t win though.”
Ok, show me ANY manager that boasts 20 years CL qualification..
How about anyone close?
Just read this Durand and noticed you had no takers – funny that!
Yes, it’s an achievement but it happens not to be our ceiling under this management, they’re aiming higher.
HH
Arsenal Wenger was also a checkbook manager
Tell me how much did he spent on Alexis Sanchez, Mesut Ozil and Aubameyang, in which years did he sign them, and how much would those figures be in today’s market?
Arteta is doing great
Either you like it or not, we don’t care
Congratulations!
Freddy, have you forgotten the seasons that AW had to plan for while the Emirates was being built and paid for?
Even then, we still finished in the top four and yet he was castigated for not challenging for the title.
There’s no doubt that, to compete with the likes of city, any manager needs a cheque book.
It is a logical fallacy to say that for the amount of money he is getting paid he should be winning every game. There are many managers on equal wages, but only one of them can win each competition – so how could it possibly be that the amount a manager is paid should guarantee success.
The point is I was asked why I don’t post much since we went into winning run.
And my answer was because Arteta is doing his job that he is so handsomely paid to do.
HH, pretty sure Arteta already has a trophy, the FA Cup ring any bells ?
With Wenger’s and Emery players. Would like to see him repeat the feat with so much better players at his disposal now.
Perhaps he might win it again this season?
Funny how those players turned up when there was medals to be won…
And yet HD, it’s always said that AW was lucky to inherit the famous defence of GG’s – isn’t that argument the same for MA?
Whereas Wenger broke up that squad, built the Invincibles and won trophies, Arteta broke up the fa cup winning squad and we still await HIS squad winning trophies.
Mind you, I don’t think we’ll be waiting too much longer!!
Ken, Wenger never won a PL without a GG or a Rioch player, and that includes the Invincibles.
That’s not what I wrote though HD and, of course, Arteta has never won anything without AW or UE players has he?
How’s it going?
My mistake Ken, I thought we were following on from the Wenger and Emery players posted by HH.
I’m not bad thanks, hope you’re well.
I’m good, hope your getting positive news.
Good to see you posting on a more regular basis.
“…he should be winning every game”
In what fantasy football world do you live.
He has won the FA Cup .. so your whole premise in null and void.
Or are you now saying that doesn’t mean anything ?
Your comments seem to imply you.are only ever going to criticise so why bother being so negative. Sports is joyous and brings people together …go watch a different team or sport
HH is a hypocrite.
He is keen to insult and disparage Arteta but wants us to believe that Wenger and Emery were hugely successful whilst managing on a shoestring budget.
Emery is a good manager but the fact is that his success has mainly been with middle tier teams in lower level tournaments. His higher level successes were with PSG where the chequebook was well and truly open.
He has no respect for Mourinho who took a middle tier team to EL and CL wins .
Where does HH say that he wants you/me/us to believe anything?
You want us to believe your interpretation, as you clearly state it , but HH is giving his opinion.
Why not stop the personal insults and discuss the merits of both your opinions?
Once again thank you Ken for being a voice of reason and bring a balanced view as always.
@David
My post was my personal opinion. I didn’t reply to anyone attacking their views, insulting or belittling.
The fact that you and fellow Arteta supporters have come after me in unison is a cult like behavior.
I won’t act like a victim or complain like you and your ilk always do because if I (or anyone) come hard on you, you will put on your diapers and cry mommy so I get put into moderation.
I wonder why all of you take it as personal insult when someone talk unfavorably of Arteta?
I would be concerned if I were in your shoes.
@Pat
Is being Arteta fan a license on JA to be disrespectful to anyone without consequences? Dan Kit above have been insulted out of the blue when he wasn’t even posting on this article.
Don’t worry about me HH but thanks for the concern 😂
Herd mentality from a few on here , same 5-6 posters , borderline bully’s IMO , but as we saw with Ackshays comments will disappear then act the victim when things get heated .
I should know better than to get involved but cannot stand bully’s , nice to see the voice of reason Ken having your back
Like I said yesterday
AFC does not stand for Arteta fan club ,stand your ground as I’ve known your comments on here over the years a lot longer than some of these posters ,true arsenal fan .
You claim these are simply personal insults.
Mourinho took Porto who have clearly been no-one’s idea of a heavyweight team to EL and CL titles in consecutive seasons. Yet he is ridiculed as simply a chequebook manager.
Emery’s main domestic titles came from when he was managing PSG, yet he gets respect.
“Wants us to believe” is used simply as a figure of speech in this discourse. It’s not an insult.
Isn’t calling someone a hypocrite personal David?
Because opinions can evoke emotions. If you’ve ever had a debate on politics or morality, you may understand this. Those of us who see quite clearly that MA is the best thing that’s happened to the club since the mid-Wenger era, are understandably irked by a stance so out of touch with reality.
I don’t see many personal insults, just people reacting like humans to nonsense.
Honestly..I sometimes wish some fans could be sold or traded like players…it is as clear as trumps hairdo that arteta is building something special…yet you can’t please all fans! Wow…HH…I respect your right to an opinion…but go watch curling or something
Out lieres such as you HH are also entitle to giv dethoir opiniion. Equally we massive majoity who are not outliers have a perfect right to tell you you are talking complte nonsense and that you personal agenda against MA is SO OBVIOUS that we are bound to ask do you have apersonal reason for your agenda against MA?
Has he, for example, robbed your house,OR DONE SOME PERSONAL DAMAGE TO YOUR LIFE.
Because THAT is the only answer to my question that makes any sense in explaining WHY you clearly hate him and want to poison his name on JA at every opportunity.
I PITY YOU, GENUINELY!!
Since Arteta has been at the club we’ve been significantly outspent by Man City and Liverpool and have challenged them for two years now. Stop the lies.
Wasn’t easy at the start, Arteta had a plan and he stuck with and Josh accorded him the full support. We now need him to pull us over the line and show the massive progress through tangible success. I really wish the team wins a cup end of this season to show further the effort and strides made.
Keep the faith Arsenal family, so much we can achieve long term. COYG!!!
I personally respect coaches who have the idea of how they want to play football, identifies and acembles the players that fit into the system by coaching out the best in them, rather than braking transfer records on established players. #wenger, #fargusen, #Ranieris and Emery to name a few.
I like Mikel Arteta, because he has the idea of how he wants to play football, he has the ability to spot the players that fit into his system but he currently lack the ability to coach out the best in his players. “Either you are ready made or your are out”.
This highlight why he had shown little to no faith in using the academy players.
I hope he, being a check book manager at the moment is just a plan to quickly transform the club, before blending in the academy.
In answer to your last point, do you think it would have been wise to throw in the academy players right now? I realise that the Liverpool youngsters have hit the ground running but would you expect them to retain their places?
I disagree.
Many of our players have improved under Arteta, especially most of those who are now first team players. However, there is only so much you can improve a player.
Well written and completely agreed.
How do you then explain Arteta has largely bought young players, that are far from the finished product, and he was slated for it in the beginning, yet he has taken us from around 12’th, when he took over to where we are today?
Is someone else responsible for the progress of those players? And who is responsible for the progress the likes of Saka and Martinelli has made?
No point there. Saka, Martinelli and Saliba were already high quality players long before Arteta arrived. They would have thrived under any manager.
If you are to give him credit for youngsters give him credit on “HIS” youngsters such as Viera and Runersson.
Saka, Martinelli, Saliba were talents, but nowhere as good as they are now.
And indeed, they have chosen to stay at Arsenal long term, very much because of Arteta and his project.
Throw Odegaard into the same category as well.
Anders, can’t argue with your viewpoint on the likes of Martinelli, but would you agree that, if it wasn’t for an accumulated injury problem, Martinelli would nt have been selected?
If we’re being REALLY honest, each one of us could write a list of the good and bad things MA has done.
It’s the reluctance to acknowledge that fact (as I see it) that causes the friction amongst us on JA, whether for or against him.
All I can say is that MA has converted me, after three years of doubting him, so much so, that, as long as we qualify for the CL again, I’m willing to give him even more time.
Just wish he would play ESR more, but that’s my personal preference
I think Arteta has had belief in Martinelle all the time, and I honestly think it is a product of the old “Arteta out crowd”, that there is talk of him not developing players.
IMO, the main focus os Arteta has been to build a new young team, with a completely different culture, than what was there, when he took over.
It has taken time, but we are getting there.
A few have chosen not to acknowledge it, and are possibly only waiting to get their knives out. But that is just the way it is.
As for good and bad, name me just one manager, who has got all his dispositions right 😉
Overall, I think Ateta has done extremely well to get us out of the mess, we were in and build a very solid foundation for the next few years.
Can we topple the best team in the World, led by the best manager in the game? Maybe, maybe not, but I really don’t think anyone could have come up with a better plan and execution, than what Arteta, Edu and Kroenke have done.
There we go, you ignore the fact that Martinelli was getting no game time whatsoever, while MA continued to play Willian, who was a complete disaster.
That’s the frustration for me, why is it so hard not to recognise his errors – errors that he admits himself, Saliba being a classic example.
Of course every manager has made mistakes, isn’t it sad that that wasn’t realized with our previous coach and manager?
You keep on about the “mess” we were in, but he won the fa cup with that “mess” and, in my opinion, it’s a feeble excuse to cover the 8th, 8th, 5th and no european football that followed his clearing up of the “mess”.
However, he’s learned by his self proclaimed mistakes and has taken our club forward in spectacular fashion – long may it continue.
I have no problem acknowledning Willian was a mistake. But, was Martienlli a that time ready to be the main LW. Doubtfull, IMO.
As for Saliba, you may call it a mistake as well. I call it a perfect example of developing a player, who wasn’t ready.
And the old “8, 8, 5” – I am astonished it is still dragged out.
The first season, we were 12’th, when he took over, so getting us 8’th was in fact quite good and clear progress. And yes, I think the team was a mess, which nobody truly believed could challenge for top spots in the league.
The second season (his first full), 8’th was clearly a disappointment. Pesonally, I wouldn’t have complained, if he had been sacked at the time. But he was not, and ever since it has been clear steady progress.
I have no doubt, the project he presented for Kroenke, made Kroenke willing to invest and to keep going down the road of a massive clear out and a new young team being built for the future. So, there was never any demands from Kroenke to get CL football within a short timeframe. But rather a demand to keep building a sound foundation.
Of course Arteta has made errors. How many times do I need to acknowledge it? The point is though, some of the “mistakes” the old Arteta out crowd keep bringing up, i.e. getting rid of Auba, has in my opinion proven to be just the opposite. A good and neccessary move.
As for your underlying claim that Wenger and maybe also Emery wasn’t treated with the same patience or “velvet gloves”, it really misses the point IMO. The thing is, when Wenger and Emery were sacked, there was no clear strategy for the owners to believe in. They didn’t believe we were on the right track.
Arteta’s rebuild is done with a clear strategy, and the only logical reason, the owners have continued to back it, is because they can see, we are on the right track. Not because Kroenke has suddenly transformed into Father Xmas.
Anders, you only acknowledge his mistakes when prompted though and, once Martinelli got his chance, it was obvious he was ready – but if you want to believe he wasn’t ready then that’s OK.
Mikel himself has said he made a mistake not registering Saliba but, again, if you don’t agree with him, then that’s also fine with me.
Bringing up 8th 8th and 5th is a surprise for you?
Then stop saying the club was in a “mess” when he took over – we had finished 5th and 6th the two seasons before, reached a european final and won the fa cup before that.
As for saying the owners didn’t believe there was a strategy, where did you read that?
They were more than content to let AW finish in the top four and win fa cups, even awarding him a new two year contract!!
Look, this is all history, but let’s be honest about what went on.
You yourself said that MA might have been sacked, but he wasn’t, he worked his butt off, convinced the likes of me that he’s the right man for the job and the futures bright – but please don’t try and rewrite history to make it sound like he took over a club destined for relegation etc etc
Saliba himself has admitted, he wasn’t happy to be sent out, but admitted he probably wasn’t ready physically.
The 8, 8 5 is total rubbish.
Again, Arteta took over mid season and improved us to eigth. So the first 8 actually a good achievement. The second season (the second eigth) was bad. But then he achieved 5’th, with the youngest squad in the league, and most could then see, we were on to something. But of course, some fans wants to keep seeing it as a failure, so they don’t have to admit their mistake. Ring a bell?
I know, you are very touchy about AW and can’t admit he should have been let go much earlier.
We were regressing in his last years, and not because of lack of spending. Clubs like Liverpool and Spurs overtook us despite spending much less. AW was great, no doubt, but more so in the first 10 years than in the last part of his tenure.
It is a logical conclusion that the owners didn’t believe Wenger had a workable plan and strategy. Why else was he sacked? Same for Emery. But, Arteta was given more time after the second season (the second 8’th if you like), and the only logical conclusion is of course, the owners believed in the plan and in the strategy. All very simple, if you take time to think about it.
First of all, if it was a logical conclusion, why did the club offer him another two year contract?
Secondly, I’m not “touchy” about AW, as he’s part of our history now. The club have recognised his contribution to The Arsenal (shame some fans haven’t) and he’s now back after MA asked him to.
Thirdly, why didn’t MA work on / with Saliba if he wasn’t ready? Your still ignoring the FACT that MA himself said he made a mistake by not registering him!!
I don’t know about me being “touchy” about AW, you seem to have a distinct apathy to agree with what MA himself said.
Fourthly, because MA took over when we were 12th (?) finishing 8th with a squad that beat city and chelsea while winning the fa cup was a good result?
That same squad finished 5th the season before and played in a European final – he then dismantled said squad and still finished 8th and got knocked out of the fa cup in the 4th round and dismissed from said european tournament.
How you can see this as “progress” is beyond me, but that’s your opinion.
Fifthly, I don’t need a “bell” to remind me of my thoughts, as I have a good memory.
The youngest side included Saka, Martinelli, ESR, Nketiah, Nelson all of whom MA inherited from the “mess” he, supposedly, took over from.
Does that ring a bell to you?
Finally, as you said yourself, MA was lucky to survive after his second 8th finish, so, with no cup football after early exits, we had the PL to concentrate on and finishing 5th was hardly a stunning performance in my opinion. Just remind me how many points we were behind city at the end of the season.
With the most money ever spent by a Arsenal manager (doesn’t matter what other clubs spent – why are you mentioning it?) of course the owner put his faith in MA and it has worked out to be a great decision.
Of course, when we were finishing 8th 8th and 5th, everyone was complaining about the lack of money spent AND the level of players bought in and many of them are out on loan or about to leave the club.
All the above is easy to source and confirm, if only one took the time to think about it.
By the way, I have never disputed that AW’s first decade wasn’t better than his second… BUT… we never finished out of the top four, won fa cups, played in europe and didn’t spend over £800,000,000 – does that ring a bell for you as to why Wenger was offered another two year contract?
Rewrite history? What a low comment.
Not registering Saliba only proved to be a bad decision in retrospect, when we had many injuries, Saliba had a great development thnaks to Arteta sending him out on loan, and that is what is the important thing in that discussion.
Of course it matters, how much other clubs spend compared to us. The fact Liverpool and Spurs could overtake us, and in Liverpools case, even win the league, despite spending much less than us, proves they had a manager which coud do things AW couldn’t anymore. Yes, he got us top 4, but we didn’t challenge for any major titles in 9-10 years at least.
8, 8, 5 is a truly narrowminded argument, trying to justify wanting Arteta out, as it tries to paint a picture of 3 seasons of failure.
How is it not progrees to take reins of a team mid season, when it is 11’th or 12’th and improve the position 8’th?
Finishing 5’th in his second full season with the youngest team in the league, is IMO a very good achievement, and it has proven to be the very foundation for Arsenal now finally being title contenders again,.
But hey, go ahead and keep up the 8, 8, 5 if it makes you feel better to ignore the facts.
A low comment? Does that ring a bell Anders?
Of course your rewriting history when you say the club was in a mess, then applaud someone who took us to our lowest position in over two decades twice, took us out of european football for the first time in two decades and all this after we had finished 6th and 5th, got to a European final and won the fa cup in the previous two seasons before he arrived.
Nobody has said Saliba was badly mismanaged, but Mikel himself said that HE made the mistake of not registering him – simple really if you think about it!!
Now, are you going to explain why the club offered AW a new two year contract, if, as you claim, he had no idea what he was doing?
Martinelli had 10 goals and 5 assists as an 18 year old fresh from Brazil under Emery. A fantastic accomplishment honestly, but somehow didn’t see as much game time due to the inclusion of Willian, who never showed improvement.
As far as Saliba, he dominated the French League for 1 1/2 years, pundits, managers, and fans alike concede that.
Even Arteta himself has said that he made a mistake sending Saliba on loan and not registering him for the Europa league that year.
Surprising how Arteta himself admitted that mistake, yet some will ignore that or deny a mistake was made.
Personally I think Arteta has done a fine job, and NO ONE could have predicted this when he was hired.
No one is perfect, and I think Arteta’s man management is not good, but it will improve with experience. Freezing out players, talking competition when there is none within the squad. (Ramsdale/Raya saga, let’s see what happens to Kiwior Trossard when Zinchenko qnd Jesus are fit.)
I disagree with some of this as it attempts once again to present an inaccurate picture.
Martinelli had a great start to his first season but then started picking up injuries. He also had to contend with a change in role for which he was in competition with senior players.
Many would agree that Willian turned out to be a mistake but the transfer at the time seemed a reasonable one.
Arteta regretted certain aspects of how Saliba was handled but it is essential to consider the context. It was always part of the plan for Saliba’s development for him to go on loan. At the time it was felt that he was not quite ready for the PL. We also had quite a lot of senior defenders. The regret was related to the fact that Arsenal then lost a number of senior players to injury which could have allowed Saliba some playing time if he had been registered for the EL.
At the time there were also various issues around negotiating a suitable loan arrangement which meant that Saliba ended up in the under-23 team for half a season rather than on loan as was planned.
Arteta has never said it was a mistake for Saliba to go on loan.
David, no one, including MA has said it was a mistake to send Saliba out on loan.
What MA said was that he made a mistake not registering him for any of the first team squads.
I wonder why our memories of Martinelli differ?
I’m certain that the majority of fans were calling for him to replace Willian long before MA did that, but if that’s how you recall both situations then that’s fine.
Let me ask you a very simple question David, why do you believe ANY Arsenal fan would want Mikel Arteta to fail and present an inaccurate picture?
Saliba himself, has admitted, it was good for him to go on loan, although he didn’t agree with it at the time.
So you surely have to agree, David, that players have also digressed under MA?
The goalposts were moved so many times to accommodate MA and I clearly remember the likes of Durand, Dan kit, Reggie and myself, amongst others, questioning the transfer policies, the style of play, the eagerness to let players leave rather than trying to train / coach them.
This was happening for the first three seasons with no accountability and the club was losing money left, right and centre… BUT… kronkie backed him with huge amounts of money and was prepared to lose said money, as he became the owner that I never thought he would.
So, yes I can see and understand what HH is saying and I was with him up and until the beginning of last season.
That was when I saw the beginning of what Goonerboy is talking about and slowly but surely he has won me over.
I am seeing some incredible football, edge of the seat type of football as witnessed when we absolutely demolished Newcastle.
Of course this was achieved, partly, by spending over £800,000,000, but if we want to compete with the likes of city, pool, madrid, psg etc that’s what we need to do and THAT’S where HH and I differ.
Yes, Wenger was never backed like this by Kronkie, but that’s part of our history and I’m just pleased that the owner now seems to have become a fan of the club.
Yes, until MA starts to win things, he can’t be compared to AW and those “fans” who continue to degrade what Arsene did for the club THROUGHOUT his tenure, are a disgrace in MY opinion.
But we move on. The club have, quite rightly, honoured Le Prof with his statue and the man himself has returned to the club… But it’s MA’s time now and we should all be getting behind him.
As I wrote earlier, wounds have been healed, the club is as one and the future looks positive.
Sorry for the long reply, but I felt that HH was being unfairly targeted, when, in fact, 99.9% of fans have all, at one time or another, expressed doubts about Mikel Arteta.
Thank you Ken. Personally I would prefer clubs competing in scouting raw talents and mold them into fine players along with normal signings and a big signing here and there just like it was 20 to 30 years back when I started watching football.
I can’t deny the reality now is who spend more wins more, and I don’t like it personally. I have no problem with anyone who likes or see no issue with it.
I don’t have to like Arteta to support him. They are two different things. I hope some can understand that.
I appreciate your understanding as always.
HH, no problem.
It’s funny how some forget what they wrote and I completely understand your paragraph regarding Mikel Arteta.
It’s a shame when people get personal, forgetting that we’re all Arsenal fans… I do it myself of course!! 😂😂
@HH & ken1945
RealTalk…What gets me is, some on here feel as if Arteta is beyond critique. No one is. Jus sayin…
NY_Gunner what gets me as well is that some on here feel as if Arteta should not be given credit for anything good he’s doing at the club. They criticise everything he does,moan whenever we lose,but remarkably hold back on congratulating the manager when the team does well. These indivuduals are basically trolls who should not be taken seriously. A proper critic is one that offers a balanced view,and gives credit where it’s due.
Ah!
That is my point Onyango from earlier posts
Like you, what I cannot understand is why a small number of regular posters have refrained from offering congratulatory comments after a win. It only needs a sentence or two to show their appreciation of the team , even if they don’t care for Arteta.
They are quick to share their feelings when it goes pear shaped so on the face of it, it looks as though they are hiding right now.
I’ve never hidden behind a bad result and don’t intend to now.
So true Sue and Onyango.
We have a certain type of fan, of which we have an almost daily post from the same old few, who post troll like comments and who ONLY EVER MOAN about MA, but who never praise him and disappear from threads discussing how well MA does.
Unlike Ken, I PREFER TO CALL IT – MEANING THOSE MOANING FANS – EXACTLY AS I SEE IT AND SEE THEM, AND NOT TRY TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
Jon, you see it your way and I’ll see it my way.
Of course, when debating, one NEEDS an open and inquisitive mind in order to understand others points of views – unlike you Jon and that’s why I try to see it both ways, rather than have a closed and always right attitude.
HH does not have doubts KEN. He neverhas. What HH has is adetermination not to have MAat allunde any circumstances or give him any real chance to show his managerial gifts, at any price
This man HH has been consistently against MA and is still to this day. That is not “doubt” but is anintention to relentlessly blacken the name of a very specail and wonderful manager who ,yes, HAS made mistakes- something HH cannot allow- but who has done all the wonderful things for our club and fanbase that you list in your own wise post above.
Some would say that if we took your last paragraph and changed the name HH to Jon Fox and MA to AW from 2008 onwards, your post would be a perfect response.
Would you agree with that observation?
I can only say that HH has explained his views in a clear and concise manner and, at any given time, fans on JA have agreed with him.
You have said that MA has made mistakes with some of his transfers and that’s one of the points HH makes.
I’ve complained about MAs reluctance to, seemingly, take time to train individuals – yet another of HH’s complaints…. and there are other examples.
How I differ with HH, is where we are NOW and what we needed to do, money wise to achieve it.
Whatever happens, all three of us support our club, just in different ways I guess.
Ken And where I differ from the moaning minnies on JA among whom HH is in the vanguard, is that unlike normal fans who both praise AND criticise according to the subject in hand, the troll like posts from HH AND HIS DREARY ILK ARE ONLY EVER NEGATIVE MOANS.
That is , IMO, not how nornal and TRUE, REAL, fans behave.
Perhaps YOU can remember or investigate the last time HH EVER wrote anything positive.
I have been on JA for a great many years and cannot think of even ONE positive comment from him about MA.
THATS MY CHALLENGE TO YOU THEN KEN , FIND ONE, IF IT EXISTS.
HH August 10, 2023 at 3:27 pm
“Dan before I read the article I knew you didn’t predict Arsenal for 1st or 2nd.
1. Arsenal (with the title secured by the end of March)
2-4: will be contested by Liverpool, Man City, Man utd, Chelsea, Newcastle, Spurs and Aston Villa.
You are going to find City finding it hard to win games easily this season.”
HH August 10, 2023 at 3:28 pm
“And it pains to see one of our own predicting an inferior squad and coach compared to ours for the 2nd place.”
My posts on predicting league positions at the beginning of current season.
And just for your information Dan Smith predicted Man utd for second hence my comment that Ten Hag is inferior to Arteta.
I don’t expect you to reply as you get busy finding another false accusation against me. Good luck!
HH, finding posts of yours that talk any old tosh is not going to keep me “busy” at all.
Because they are in virtually every thread we ever have on JA, in which you post.
It take only seconds to find any of them!
Your anti MA agenda comes into the room before you do.
HHDecember 22, 2023 at 9:45 pm
“Being competitive has meaning only when it brings trophies. I agree with you it’s difficult to do that every season but we can’t always come up short and call it a success because we were competitive enough
Last and this season the manager and his players are among the best in the league. We can go toe to toe with any other genuine challenger.
Not winning the league should be failure. How else can you improve on 2nd? And speaking of league position, any position below 2nd will be regression.”
Copy and paste kind of idiot .*
I didn’t realize that one needed to write an article to prove ones intellect and abilities Jon!!
Perhaps people like SueP, Durand, David, Loose Cannon, Jen, TMJW, Jumbo and Ackshay (amongst others) all of whom you have praised should dust down their typewriters and get busy?!?!
Oh I am keen to reply HH and to point out that not only were your opinions wrong , although for once in a blue moon , showed some optimism.
But they are now seven months old and you have written no others that I CAN RECALL,OR THAT YOU CAN FIND, SINCE THEN!!!.
Though your several times EACH DAY negative posts are ten a penny.
HH April 30, 2022 at 10:02 am
If the players are of unbelievably high standards we should have been celebrating the championship at the end of the season not fighting for 4th.
I am happy for 4th and how Arteta has managed to get most of the results with a thin squad.
But realistically we are sitting 4th with 11 games lost. That can only means we are bad but our rivals have been worse.
I bet with Dan Smith 100 pounds right here on JA that Arteta will lift CL trophy this season.
There are countless posts where I have praised and being totally behind Arteta especially last season.
You have read them and replied to some of them but keep on willfully forgetting them.
I will be replying to your every post for the next week with my positive posts history because I can’t stand liars and its always a pleasure exposing them.
Why WAIT? Do it now then, IF they exist!
And unless Dan Smith has given you better odds than any bookie will,on us winning CL, that is a pretty dismal and daft bet, I reckon.
It’s not about the bet but saying something positive about the manager. Isn’t that what you wanted?
Go find another lie to mud my name. You can enlist the usual suspects help I am sure you will come up with something.
Well Jon, I see that HH has given you plenty of examples.
I did note that you didn’t comment on the insertion of AW for MA and Jon Fox for HH and following on from that, how you can criticise HH for not supporting the manager!!
I can’t recall any post of YOURS from when I found JA, where YOU didn’t criticise, not only the manager, but player after player after player.
So, using your criteria above, do you not think that you were not a TRUE and REAL fan with your behaviour?
Now it’s my opinion that you can’t preach one thing, while having done the complete opposite previously, as that’s the height of hypocrisy.
This article, an excellent one in my opinion and has given each of us the opportunity to look back and discuss our views then (when MA became our coach / manager) to today.
It’s not intended to carry out a witchhunt on anyone who still hasn’t completely been won over by MA.
No he PLAINLY did NOT give “plenty of examples” Plainly they were only two and were many months ago.
But daily he slags MA off at every opportunity.
But your “wilful blindness” to fail see such things is hardly surprising Ken, from someone who even NOW still refuses to admit, even to himself, that OZIL WAS BONE IDLE!
And I DID post a reply immediately under your post of 11.29 pm Feb 29 where you falsely accused me saying things that were not the same but ,in fact, completely different from what HH regularly says and for completely different reasons.
One of which was that by 2008, AW had 12 years as manager with no honour for four years past, which then became 9, til the FA CUP in 2013, by which time you were still lauding him, as you did right up til 2016, a 12 year gap since our last Prem title.
My whole point, ignored by you, was that all normal fans both praise AND criticise at times. You , I, and almost all fans do this and regularly. Which is the life blood of a proper fan site and perfectly natural
But ONLY EVER criticising but NEVER praising is what HH (and a few other well known regulars on JA still do).
And why! Because eve since his hero AW was instructed to resign or be sacked HH andhis dismal ilk have never forgiven COUNTLESS fans who called for many years for AW to leave. And they have never given MA even a ghost of a chance to prove himnself . As he has amply proved, even to your satisfaction now, for a season and two thirds. But do we EVER read praise from HH??.
Practically never! I rest my case.
As for your insulting and ridiculous second paragraph in your post right above this , I chose not to rise to your baiting and decided to keep my dignity and not reply to such a pathetic lie!
Ken its now 10.45, so I am off to bed now and will noT be free to come on JA again til Sunday So any post you write now I am bound not to see. Just so you know!
Sorry Jon, but my examples fit like a glove and that’s EXACTLY WHY you can’t / won’t answer it.
HH has done what you claim ALL fans should do and given you examples, only the problem for you, is that he hasn’t done it the way YOU think he should have.
How you can dispute the FACT that you did EXACTLY what your accusing HH of doing, is beyond comprehension.
I don’t want to get onto Ozil, especially as that will enable you to wriggle away from your double standards with regards to supporting a manager, but here’s another little snippet for you :
Here is a FACTUAL piece from the club regarding the three players who have provided the most assists since the formation of the PL :
3rd Odegaard = 27
2nd Fabregas = 32
1st. Ozil. = 37
I’ll keep my views about Ozil until you can come up with FACTS like these, while you can keep believing that he was bone idle!!
I do, however, believe that Odegaard will become the top dog very soon under the watchful eye of Mikel Arteta.
Sleep well my fellow Gooner.
Ken
Thanks for the mention, but more thanks for correctly stating my opinions regarding moving the goalposts.
Funny thing how standards and opinions change, depending who the manager is, aye?
Many wanted Wenger out for finishing 5th and 6th. Wanted Emery gone as well.
However, they justify 8th, 8th, and 5th and no European football (a first in 2 decades) when Arteta is in charge.
I’m not bashing Arteta, but spotlighting the hypocrisy that should be apparent to all.
So now top 4 is an achievement, not mocked as “not good enough?”
It’s hard to keep up with moving goalposts, shifting opinions, and all the excuses when it’s based on emotions rather than standards.
That’s been the REAL problem from the beginning though Durand – criticism of Mikel was seen as being disloyal to the club.
While I’m excited to see how our football has progressed and see the future as being very positive, there is no doubt whatsoever that MA was very lucky to have stayed in the managerial seat…. especially when one compares the measuring stick used to evaluate both AW and UE.
I wanted to see consistency from a squad that cost so much and that has now happened, along with great football.
Let’s just hope this continues and those goalposts stay where they are!!
KEN while not remotely attempting to re-open old wounds concerning our countless AW battles, have you never given any thought to sheer AGE as one among other factors WHY Arsenal was keen to move on?
AW WAS IN HIS 69th year when he left, and whatever happened, he did not have a LONG TERM FUTURE LEFT HERE.
KSE are men of the world and knew that his age meant his days were numbered, quite irrespective of other factors. Emery was 47, when he came . Ma was not even forty.
Sheer pressure at any top level club these days, means it is only ever going to be possiible in the future for younger or middle aged managers to manage and to stay around for years like Fergie and AW.
Those days are now IMO, firmly in the past. AGE affects ALL of us and wiser minds take that into acount!
If you doubt it , think USA election later this year. God help the USA!
There are no moving goalposts.
It is very simple. The owners sacked AW and UE because they no longer believed they could take Arsenal back to top 4, or even better, to challenge for the title.
Whereas, they obviously have believed all the time, Arteta could.
And your 8, 8, 5 is rubbish. Because the first half season Arteta actually improved our position to 8’th, so that was no failure.
The second season (his first full season) was a disappointment to all fans, I suspect, but the owners must have seen and believed, despite 8’th place. Claiming the second full season (5’th place) was a failure and should have meant Arteta being sacked, because AW and UE was, is very narrowminded. Most fans coud see, we achieved 5’th with the youngest team in the league, and something very good was going on. The very reason we now are challenging for the league.
Thank God the owners looked at the bigger picture and has proven the “8-8-5 crowd” so wrong.
Anders, please explain why the club offered Wenger a two year contract extension if you can?
As MA hasn’t won anything yet as manager (let’s hope that changes of course) after four seasons and with the likes of youngsters like Saka, ESR, Nelson, Nketiah and Martinelli, all of whom he inherited from AW and UE’s time, it should be an odds on conclusion that we win something – if he does, that doesn’t change the “8th 8th 5th crowd” that is written as part of MA’s history and is a FACT.
Thank goodness for hindsight eh Anders?!?!
ESR debut in the prem was under Arteta, Martinelli’s was under Ljungberg and only one game before Arteta. Most want Nelson/Nketiah sold whilst claiming Arteta doesn’t offer opportunities to youngsters.
Your point being Angus?
Were the players there before MA arrived?
Do they make up most of the youngest squad of players?
I would prefer Nketiah and Nelson sold, so I ask you the question again, what’s your point?
Don’t know, what you are talking about with a 2 year contract extension to Wenger. Are you denying he was in fact sacked, or “asked to leave”?
Arteta has won the FA Cup. That is a fact. Just as much as it is a fact, he has finished 8, 8, 5 in his first two and a half seasons. The problem is, some want to paint those finishes as failures. But go ahead, if that is your agenda.
The fact, that Arteta has chosen to use youngsters he inherited, develop them and be partly responsible for turning them into stars, serves to hs credit, IMO.
I am sure everybody hopes we will win a major trophy again soon after 20 years of drought.
Arteta is responsible for making it a real possibility again.
You didn’t know he signed a two year extension and was in the second year of said extension when he left the club? WOW!!
So WHY did the club give him that extension if they “knew” he had lost his way?!
Do I believe AW was sacked? I believe he left by mutual consent after the club asked him to stay on until the end of the season in order to search for a replacement and arrange for the celebration of his time in the hot seat – have you seen any other “sacking” where the person stays for another two months, doing exactly the same job, gets a farewell that must have cost the club an awful lot of money and received the unique gold trophy awarded for the Invincibles, which of course, being Arsene, he immediately returned to the club?
MA was the coach when he won the fa cup and finished 8th 8th and 5th when he was manager.
We agree completely regarding the young players – it just needs to be recognised that they were at the club before he became the manager.
I think I’ve answered ALL your points Anders, now can I expect you to answer WHY AW was offered that two year contract extension and WHY he wasnt “sacked” on the spot as, say, UE was?
Just a quick correction on my part Anders, AW was into his contract extension, not certain if it was the first or second season.
Can I also ask you to go back and read my very first comment regarding this article (I think I it was the second comment) and you will see that I fully appreciate what MA has done?
I really don’t see there is any doubt, that when Wenger was told Arsenal didn’t want to continue with him, it was done in a respectful manner, where he could go out and “resign” himself. Call it forced resignation or sacking, I don’t care.
It is also obvious, the club/owner possibly still believed Wenger could at least get us back into top 4, when we dropped out back in 16/17. Maybe they truly believed it, maybe they just thought he deserved the chance. Who knows?
The fact is, he was not sacked after 16/17, but after 17/18, when the club/owner clearly thought it was better to get a new manager.
I haven’t seen one single person disputing the likes of Martinelli and Saka were at Arsenal before Arteta, and that they were big talents.
But why can’t you also give some credit to Arteta for having a part in their furhter development and their decison to commit long term to Arsenal?
Don’t you think it has been great for Saka, that Arteta, hasn’t prioritised to play Pepe as RW? Hasn’t Saka flourished under Arteta?
Anders, as Ken knows more than anyone else on JA , as he and I have had endless heated “discussions” about AW, and in particular about whether he was sacked, forced to resign( my OWN submission) or voluntarily resigned.
But we are now almost six years on and I , FOR JUST ONE , think it faintly ludicrous and that it amounts to no more than historical, typically male, point scoring off each other, to worry about it any longer.
To be clear, despite my very many calls for Wenger to go, ranging right back to almost a decade before he “left”, I STILL REVERE HIS MEMORY, HIS HUMANITY AND ALL that he did for our club. He fully deserves that statue.
I am entirely WITH ALL you say above and think it long past time that ANY of we fans who prefer to look forward , rather than back, CEASE to torture ourselves with endless irrelevant and wrongheaded “discussions” about HOW Wenger left!
Its now almost “ancient history”!
Jon, I agree it really is futile to discuss how Wenger left in itself. It is beyond debate, he left against his will. How you then name it, can to some extent be debated. Dismissal, sacking or forced resignation, take your pick. To me they are essentially the same thing.
But what is of course debatable, is, whether you think it was fair, or the right thing to do.
Nobody actually denies Wenger was a fantastic manager for Arsenal as a whole. I think the disagreement only lies in how good he was the last 8-10 years or so. In a perfect World, I think he should have resigned 5-6 years earlier than he “left”. It would have been the best both for Arsenal and for his personal legacy.
Anders Yes we are both firmlyy on th same page. But I NOW, having spent far too many useless, .pointless hours, shall we say “discussing the minutiae” with Ken, am, albeit shamefully late, determined to look forward and not back.
Right now, at this very moment, City are one down at home to United at half time and I find THAT FAR more exciting than endlessly discussing the relatively “distant” past.
Jon, answering your post as requested!!
This great article was hijacked when AW and UE was mentioned – I’ll leave you to decide who that was, but it wasn’t me.
I have said before that this is Mikel Arteta’s time and, after an awful start (all types of excuses being made as to why that was) he has brought our club together in a way that I didn’t think he could do.
I have nothing but admiration for his on and off field behaviour – second to none and I have no hesitation in saying that he has converted me,, long may it continue.
What I object to, as you well know, is when previous coaches / managers are dismissed or not recognised for their contributions.
The history of our club is to important, for me anyway, to not point out that, for instance, the fact that we have a young PL squad is not down to MA alone.
I have my memories of Wenger’s time as manager and nothing will change that, but that is what it is, just like the days of Billy Wright, Bertie Mee, George Graham etc etc etc.
Now it’s Mikel Arteta’s time and I am fully behind him – what previous managers have done is worth remembering in a proper and respectful way, but it’s history.
KEN I will gladly and firmly agre that the past IS important, esp to we oldies who were there back then. No arguments old chum.
But speaking only for myself, I NOW PREFER TO LOOK FORWARD TO THE VERY NEAR FUTURE and let history take its natural course.
No serious minded Gooner can posibly deny the enormous legacy AW left our club.
I revere his menory, and I SAY THAT ENTIRELY HONESTLY, despite my many long ago calls for him to go.
But Ken, you and I are old men and our time runs short, so I AM RESOLVED to leave endless discussions about AW’s past to those who for perfectly valid reasons of their own wish to do so.
I will not be raking over AW s past again , at least not in any heated way, as I honestly feel no heat whatsoever about back then.
Only thankfulness for him being such a great servent to the club we have both loved all our lives.
I respect you far too much to ever wish to indulge in recriminations at my age, when I PLAINLY OUGHT TO KNOW BETTER.
REAL FRIENDSHIP Ken old chum, from now on!
You obvious DIDN’T read my first comment, but I’ll answer your questions anyway.
You don’t care, but you delight in saying he was sacked, when he obviously wasn’t, as he stayed until the end of the season and, in case you’ve forgotten, recommended Mikel Arteta to the owner, but UE was hired instead.
Not the actions of someone who was sacked or fired I would suggest, but someone who still had the club in his heart.
But you have still failed to give me a reason as to why he was offered the contract extension, if the club was in the “mess” that you say it was.
If, as you say, they thought AW could get us back into the top four, they obviously had faith in him wouldn’t you say?
By the way, if we follow your line of thought, he WASN’T sacked at the end of the season, because we still had, from memory, six more weeks to the end of the season, so your thoughts don’t add up.
Personally, I wished he’d never been persuaded to sign the extension and left in a blaze of glory after beating city in the semi final and chelsea in the final, thus making him THE most successful manager in the history of the fa cup.
Now, on to the young players – where have I ever said that MA doesn’t deserve credit for them?
I’ve questioned why he refused to play Martinelli, when Willian was preferred.
I’ve also questioned why Nketiah and Nelson were given a reported £100 grand a week, along with ESR sitting on the bench when fully fit.
Of course I give credit to MA, but what I’m writing about is the thought that it is his doing that we have the youngest squad in the PL – it isn’t, as Saka was, I believe, seven when he joined the club – I’ll leave it to you to check on the other young players and their status.
But to say that it’s down to MA that they’ve committed their future to The Arsenal, when they already have anyway, is, once again, giving a false narrative.
Funnily enough, it was also UE who played Saka in front of Pepe, having had no say in the signing of Pepe anyway.
It’s been great for Saka that the club realised his potential long before UE and MA were around, right back to the time when we had AW running the club (allegedly!!) from top to bottom.
I think it’s wonderful that players have flourished under MA, because I support the club and he is NOW doing a tremendous job and has my full support, something I wasn’t prepared to do when we were finishing 8th 8th 5th out of Europe etc etc.
I see what MA is doing and have said, if only you had taken the time to read it, that I’m seeing superb football and a club that is together on and off the field and that’s ALL down to MA and the owner.
What I dispute is the fact that he’s being given credit for other people’s work and vision – hence my comment about re-writing history.
I have read your comments, so don’t try that rubbish.
I just want to keep you to the ludicrous 8, 8, 5 claim.
I just don’t understand what you are on about, but if you can’t admit AW was essentially sacked, it doesn’t matter. You are obviously in denial.
But for your information, I will leave you with the words from an article in the Mirror from October 2020. It says it all:
“Arsene Wenger explains why he has not been back to Arsenal since his sacking
Wenger was dismissed by Arsenal in 2018 after 22 years in the dugout and is yet to go back to The Emirates despite remaining a well-revered figure at the club.
Arsene Wenger says he has not yet returned to Arsenal since his sacking because he felt it was best to have a clean break from the club.
The Frenchman was in charge of The Gunners for 22 years, overseeing an illustrious period in their history and the move from Highbury to The Emirates.
His greatest achievement was leading Arsenal’s 2004 ‘Invincibles’ to the Premier League title without losing a match in the campaign, but that proved to be the peak of his tenure.
Wenger was eventually relieved of his duties by the Arsenal board in the summer of 2018 after failing to mount a serious challenge for the title for several seasons.
And the 70-year-old is yet to go back to the club since his exit, despite still being held in high regard there.
“I will go one day,” Wenger told The Times .
Asked if he has been invited, he responded: “Yes. But I thought it was better to cut completely. It was difficult at the start, of course, after leading my club as long as I did. But I thought it’s better to follow from a distance.”
Wenger has since thrown himself into working for FIFA as head of global football development, but admitted recently he still watches every Arsenal game on television as a fan.
Talk has also turned to the prospect of Arsenal erecting a statue in honour of his work, having won three Premier League titles and seven FA Cups under his management.
But as far as his relationship with Arsenal goes, Wenger stated he now has “no connection at all with the club”.
Long before sections of Arsenal fans begun calling for Wenger to get the axe, there were suggestions he could move upstairs into an executive role to continue his good work behind the scenes.
However such an offer was never forthcoming for Arsenal’s most successful manager in their history.
Quizzed on why he wasn’t kept on, Wenger replied: “I don’t know. I always said I would still play a part in the club, but I could understand that at the start it’s better that we take a complete distance.”
When pressed if he would have stuck around in a backroom role, his answer was certain.
“I would have done that, yes.”
So there you have it. Even Wenger admits he was sacked/dismissed against his will.
Whether Wenger was sacked, chose to go or left by “mutual consent” is largely irrelevant to many fans now. The issue is that his time was up and it was realised (finally) that Arsenal needed to move on.
The insistence on stating that Arteta has “won nothing as manager” is simply an attempt to discredit him. Given the current circumstances it should be a moot point except for those who are looking for some kind of negativity to define Arteta’s time at Arsenal.
The same goes for the 8, 8, 5 argument. We had a bloated, underperforming squad that needed overhaul. Despite wining the FA cup it was clear to many that the squad bequeathed to Arteta was not capable of a title challenge against the likes of Liverpool and MC. For many discerning fans to overhaul such a squad and become competitive in a league such as the PL was always going to be very challenging. Given the quality of some of the other top teams, the fact that we have become as competitive as we have is quite impressive; even if we have yet to land one of the major titles. This is partly what is exciting many fans about the current team. Given the relative youth of the squad the future also looks bright.
Some people insisted that Arteta should have been sacked after the first few seasons. Many of them are the same people who keep coming up with these negative opinions; which are indicative of long held biases.
First of all, check the FACTS regarding MA’s stats in the PL in his first three seasons and you will read and will see 8th 8th 5th, check our fa cup record and you will find a win, while we were in a “mess”, then a 4th and 3rd round knockout record, then check back to see when we were last out of european football before MA took us out and you will see it was two decades ago, so why do you find every excuse to explain THAT awful record , except admitting it was down to MA entirely?
Your ludicrous defence of him is ridiculous – the FACTS are part of our history and you cannot change them, so why not accept them for the facts they are?
On to AW and you have your opinion while I have mine.
I have read the report you sent in carefully, so can you point out EXACTLY where he says he was “sacked or dismissed” against his will?
I find your insistence not to answer my points so telling with regards to the younger players.
It’s as if you just cannot bring yourself to admit that the FACTS are actually FACTS and not OPINIONS.
Were Saka, ESR, Nketiah, Nelson there long before MA arrived?
Did MA continue to play Willian to the detriment of Martinelli?
Did MA admit he made a mistake in not registering Saliba?
Did UE play Saka instead of Pepe?
You just ignore the questions put to you, but expect me to answer yours…all of which I have done of course.
So that’s seven questions for you and here’s the eighth :
Why can’t you give me one example of anyone being sacked, but allowed to continue in the role for a further six weeks in exactly the same role, making decisions and then asked to advise on who he thought would be a suitable candidate (MA of course) and at the END of the season, receive the send off we all know he received?
In fact, UE, received the sack, here one day, gone the next, as the likes of Mourinho or ANY other manager / coach you care to name received.
It was a mutual decision in my opinion, one that Wenger and the club agreed to, but that’s not the sack – unless you believe thar every person who has, unfortunately, been sacked, then carried on in the same position for six weeks and received the sending off he got… please give me even ONE example!!
Ken Do please read my post immediately above your one above this. Let me know your thoughts on what I say in it!
Once again you are denying Wenger was dismissed/sacked/forced to resign. I am afraid, I can’t do anymore than giving the evidence like the article. But go on living in dreamland regarding this.
I haven’t one time time denied, we actually finshed 8, 8, 5 and that meant going out of Europe, so what on earth are you on about?
What I am denying, is that it can be used to discredit Arteta. Because there was only one season, where it was a bad performance on his part. I am not going to explain it one more time.
Why do you keep asking a retorical question about when Saka, Martinelli etc. were brought to the club? I have not claimed Arteta brought them in. But he does deserve credit for their further development.
Of course, Arteta is responsible for building the young and talented team, we are seeing today.
Arteta and Edu have almost solely bought young players below 24 years of age, who are the unfinished product and gelled them into a team with the best talents, that were already at the club. Arteta received plenty of stick for spending on the unfinished products rather than bying a couple of established stars.
Luckily he has been proven right.
Soory, but I think your refusal to admit Arteta has done an excellent and neccessary rebuild of a squad and a culture, that was never going to challenge for major titles, is somewhat narrowsighted, but I will leave you to it.
So, in actual fact, your ” wasn’t” evidence “evidence” at all!!
That was a waste of time then!!
I see, once again, that you haven’t answered one single question directly, not one!!
You are now saying that he only had one bad season, so did we finish 8th 8th 5th, knocked out of the fa cup in round 3 and 4, followed by no european football in one season?!
. I’m beginning to think you not only can’t answer questions, but can’t read either.
I’ve actually said everything your accusing me of NOT saying in my very first post in this article – the second post in the article actually – and, as I suspected, you hadn’t read it.
I keep asking the same questions, because you never answer them, not directly anyway.
I also think it’s a good idea to leave it now as I’ve asked eight questions and not one has been answered directly.
Who cares anyway, as long as MA continues the great work he has done since the beginning of last season?
So Wenger admitting himself he was forced to leave against his will, isn’t evidence??
And you are talking about waste of time…
I have en answered your ridicolous rhetorical questions, so maybe you should read again.
But if you do, please think about, what is actually written.
This is the last time, I try to explain it to you.
I do not deny we finished 8, 8, and 5’th. I deny those results are products of Arteta failing. Don’t you understand the difference???
The first 8’th was when Arteta took over mid-season and we were around 11-12’th in the league. So getting us 8’th from that position wasn’t bad in any way.
The second 8 was Arteta’s first full season, and a disappointment. This was the one bad season, he is actually responsible for. Getting us 5’th in his second full season and building the foundation with the youngest squad in the league at the same time, was in my opinon a huge and important step forward. The very foundation for the exciting and title challenging football, we are now seeing.
So, yes, one bad season can be pinned on Arteta. Luckily the people in charge had the wisdom and foresight to see this and not sack Arteta.
I am sure Arteta has made errors, and will continue to do so. But every manager makes mistakes, so nothing new there.
Where has he said he was forced to leave against his will?
Just point it out in his words, not YOUR I interpretation.
Just as you said it proves he was sacked, it didn’t, that’s just how you choose to read it – I read what he ACTUALLY said in your article from the Daily Mirror.
One bad season again? So what season did we lose european football, what season did we get knocked out of the fa cup in the 3rd and 4th rounds and why do you think finishing 8th was a good season, when you condemn 5th and 6th as underperforming with, one assumes, lesser players and the club in a “mess.”
Of course I understand the difference, it’s WHY you see a positive difference in finishing 8th the season after we finished 5th and 6th before that?
Again, I agree every manager makes mistakes and I believe MA made more than you think he has – as his own words agree with me of course. I also believe AW made a lot of mistakes by the way and wrote an article for JA listing them.
Good to see your not saying I said things that I haven’t this time and, as you can’t answer eight simple, individual direct questions, I’ll stop hoping for eight simple, direct answers.
I fall into the category of supporter you were aiming at Durand
However
What cannot be dismissed is that AW hadn’t been able to maintain the standards he had done previously. His record had been outstanding in keeping us in the top4 but for the expectant fans, that wasn’t enough. I wasn’t a Wenger out person but I was very concerned about if he could bring us back. He didn’t get the chance to prove that he could but neither did Emery who came to us with a damned good record.
I wanted Emery out as it was clear to me that the dressing room was running riot and to have top4 in his grasp and a final of what was his signature competition, ending in humiliation was reason enough. The beginning of season 2 was awful.
The club was in a mess. For years one man had held the club together and had gone. The new man was unable to emulate his other achievements. We were going down the toilet. Looking at the equivalent today, Chelsea fit the same description- at management and executive level.
Having got used to the idea that Arteta as a novice had got one of football’s biggest jobs, it was a case of him assessing and changing. The fact that we had players like Guendouzi in the ranks showed just how much of a culture change was required.
It wasn’t pretty a lot of the time and I was very up and down in my processing of whether he had the ability to succeed but overall I thought he had it in him and stuck with him. I had a couple of wobbly moments but the job was a big one and not one that could be a quick fix in my view.
I don’t feel that I’m being hypocritical in giving Arteta some space. He had no real history as a manager to go on and clearly didn’t get everything right. I genuinely thought he was going in the right direction even though it took longer than anyone expected or wanted. He was fortunate to have support behind the scenes. I think Anders answered those points well. The Chelsea and Utd storylines are ones that we have been able to avoid by showing that confidence in his ideas.
Top4 was always an achievement – as it should be. With super rich clubs and others trying to make up ground to contend with, top4 was and is important with the caveat that it’s not always a realistic expectation year after year
Mikel Arteta claimed our academy players are not good enough for the way he wants to play. Let say I agree with him.
But the bottom line is, Arteta like Pep fix players into their system they don’t coach players into it.
A good manager will use average resources to produce average result
But an exceptional manager is some one who produces special result using average resources
A manager who’s result is equal to his resources is a good manager
A manager who’s resources is more than his result is a bad manager.
A manager who’s result is more than his resources is an exceptional manager.
I believe Wenger or Emery will do better with our current academy to what Arteta is doing.
@Rowland
RealTalk 👍🏾
whats real Arteta has the youngest squad of the three challenging and by a significant margin the lowest spend of the three since he took over.
Angus @
Spend Sales
Arsenal. 703 m. 143 m
Man City 726m 446m
Liverpool 486 m. 298m
Net spend
Arsenal 560 m
Man City 280 m
Liverpool 298m
Not sure where you got your figures from
And I did t add Artetas first 6 months in those figures where he signed 3 players in January.
I disagree.
You have listed some generalities and then come up with a conclusion to fit with your preconceived ideas.
You have not provided any evidence, sound basis or rationale.
It’s called an opinion David… have you not heard of that terminology?
I have also heard of rational, thoughtfully achieved opinions KEN and FAR prefer those to mere clearly agenda ridden opinions, where NO TRUE THOUGHT has plainly been used at all.
That being said, JA gives us ALL a perfect right to write any old tosh and many seize on that right gladly to GIVE US THEIR OLD TOSH
But I always think FIRST, before giving my honest thoughts.
ESR (debut under Arteta), Nelson, Nketiah and Saka are all still with us and played significant game time in Nelson/Nketiahs case against the will of certain people. Willock/AMN was also afforded a chance before being sold. Balogun again to much criticism was sold but no one mentions him anymore wonder why.
He challenged for the title last year with the 2nd youngest squad in the league behind relegated Southampton. To suggest he needs ready-made players and can’t make use of youth is so obnoxiously false it exposes your clear agenda.
If you are talking resources Liverpool and City have spent more than 500 million more than us since Arteta took over and we are challenging them with a younger sqaud so what is the conclusion? According to your criteria.
The humane side of football has died because of PSG,CHELSHIT,MONEYSHIT,MANURE UNITED,BARCA WITH the following managers. PEP ,ALEX ,JOSE ,sadly we applaud that kind of success where you just have to buy trophies, don’t develop players, its sad. However ,i would like to say MA learnt from the best guy when it comes to shipping the whole team and rebuild your own at a high cost.
Arteta is one of the best young coaches in the world, who will get his deserved success at Arsenal, and at some point in the not too distant future leave, and not for another club side.
Back to Spain, Jax?
I wouldn’t be surprised at all Sue.
See Jax, I disagree with you regarding Mikel leaving the club… IF he cintubyes to be backed by the owner and the fanbase.
He has admitted his mistakes, explained his reasoning and is very honest with us and the media.
I thought the stance he took after the Newcastle game showed his mettle and he is Arsenal through and through.
Where would he go and why would he go anywhere else?
I’m not saying it for certain Ken, but he seems the type of person who wants to win at the very top, and that would be at international level. If he can get at least two Premier League and a possible Champion’s League win in say; the next five years, he’ll be the most in demand coach/manager in the game (including Pep). Perhaps he could even manage England one day, he’s spent more than half his life in the UK.
All fancible stuff, but I don’t think he’s Wenger in his devotion to Arsenal.
100% agreement KEN.
I WOULD BE MASSIVELY AMAZED if MA wanted to EVER leave Arsenal.
I fully expect him to be here when he is fifty. He is 41 now!
I think Jax is extremely wrong !
This leads me to ask the question, what is the Kroenke’s waiting on to hand the Spaniard a brand new four year contract ?
That would be about right for my prediction of success over the next five years, before moving on to another top position.
I hope you’re right jon. i make him one of the top five in the world right now, who will improve his position.
Jax, if he wins what you suggest, then the club will move heaven and earth to keep him 😇😇
As for his feelings for the club versus Wenger, I think both of them are passionate Gooners who have put up with a section of toxic fans and both will leave their DNA within the club.
By the way, managing The Arsenal IS winning at the very top!!
Call yourself a Gooner!! 😂😂😂
😂🤣😇
Poor, H.H, everyone lining up to gang up on him for speaking his mind. Arteta has achieved nothing yet. He owes his one trophy to Aubamayang’s golden run of form and is currently in an uphill battle to stay alive in the Champion’s league. I am confident about our count down to the EPL, but anything can happen with an incomplete squad that includes average players such as Kiwior, White, Raya and Harvetz. Still, George Graham’s title winning team of 92 was nothing special , so there is reason to believe that this could be Arteta’s year.. However I have to agree that this site has become an Arteta fan club base, another AKB zone. The only way any one else can get their word in is after a loss when the usual suspects are in hiding. Of course I want to see us get this title. I’m getting on and have been waiting for lucky number 14 for 20 years. However, I still have my doubts about Arteta. He is not responsible for Saka, Martinellii and Saliba. For 50 million plus he could have bought much better than White and Harvetz. And lets not talk about the other failure buys. Arteta’s crowning glory on the market has been Odegaard and even that might have been a stroke of luck thanks to Real Madrid’s wastefulness. Rice of course we had to pay market price for, which is the real world.We were probably lucky here as well because our rivals weren’t looking for a replacement or might have already overspent. So please, some perspective on a manager who has been in a relatively stress free position for four years, is still learning on the job and who waisted a title winning opportunity last season .
Joe.S
Don’t you think that in many respects that HH’s post and much of what followed was his own doing? He wrote what he wrote and others have given their own responses by return – including me. He has those who support his view and they made that clear too so to write that he has been ganged up on is not exactly right.
As for JA being a Mikel Arteta love in, you may remember (if you followed JA at the time) just how toxic the Arteta out brigade became. Any support at all for him was met with derision on a regular basis. It also doesn’t take much for the anti Arteta following to have their say following a loss or poor performance. You don’t have much time for him either from what I’ve read above, which is your choice to make. What would it take to make your glass half full?
What I struggle mostly with it is the intransigence of it all. A view has been set in stone and therefore, becomes immovable. Over my 67 years I’ve seen the good, the exceptional and the awful as an Arsenal supporter and right now I’m watching the pretty damn good. It can all change in the blink of an eye so I’m enjoying us being competitive while it lasts.
Thanks Sue. I’m exactly your age so we’ve both survived the 80s as Arsenal fans. The music was great though. Over the long haul, Arsenal as a football club have never let us long termers down. For me the worst period was after Brady and co left and we lost an FA Cup final to West ham. I couldn’t see a way back but slowly in an Arsenalesque way the club rebuilt and we had the George Graham revival and the brilliance of the early Wegner era. I’m enjoying this period almost as much as you and will obviously wallow in pride should we break the drought this season, however as someone who actually wanted Arteta to immediately replace Arsene Wegner I’m still not convinced that Arteta is good for our long term future. I think he has made too many poor decisions in keeping and signing poor players while not giving younger players opportunities to grow. This could hurt us in the years to come. However only time will tell.
Cheers Joe.S
OAP’s together then!
My happiest times were being able to start my two sons on the Arsenal road. I took my now 40 yr old son to his first game against Millwall. Some fairly choice language I recall in the lower west stand but I’ll never forget his face when Tony Adams led the team out.
Can’t disagree on the doldrums years but GG revived us and AW took us to another level.
I’m more optimistic about Arteta as you can probably tell. This is largely due to the surprise I felt when he got the job with nothing more behind him other than being PGuardiola’s assistant. I thought experience was key and he has needed time to develop which made the first two years difficult at times. I liked what he was trying to achieve and his steely determination won me over.
I genuinely think that the messy departure of Wenger and the failure of Emery to get back into the top four straightaway was a strange moment in time. The fans were toxic – the banners etc – and the behaviour of senior players demanded a level of strong arm tactics and a new start in which the board were able to support – but with an untested manager at the helm.
I’m betwixt and between over the youth policy. I’d like to see more come through the system. Perhaps that is Arteta’s weakest link that more haven’t come via that route.
HH referred to Arteta as a cheque book manager. We needed that push a couple of years back to become a top four team again and I think that Arteta needed a quick route rather than a developmental one. Time will tell if those academy players can ease their way into the squad
Lets hope some of them get an opportunity this weekend against SheffU
Get the feeling Sue, in my case I’ve been able spread my Arsenal mania my youngest who is a die-hard fan, and my two eldest who have made Arsenal their second favourite team. For some reason they are AC Milan and Roma fans respectively, probably because they grew up in Japan where Seria is considered cooler. Obviously here in Australia we don’t have opportunities to go to Arsenal games together, but in 2018 we went to see Arsenal playing a preseason friendly in Sydney. As the grumpy old man who doesn’t believe in friendlies I didn’t want to go but my eldest had bought me a ticket so me and my kids became part of an 80,000 crowd out to see Lacazett make his debut and Ozil, Sanchez and the Oxe playing together for one more time. and it was impressive to see how many Arsenal fans game out of the woodwork to fill Sydney’s Olympics stadium on two successive nights.And it was mostly down to Wegener’s influence on how Arsenal were now regarded as a team playing brilliant football. Unfortunately the signs were also on the wall that the Wegner era had hit a brick wall. I wonder what might have happened had Wegner been allowed to stay in the race to sign the likes of Hazzard, Aguero Essien, Kante etc.
Wow, what an entertaining thread, it is clear as Trump hair do, admin had not the stamina to monitor this one.🫠
It arrived on my day off I’m afraid but I have seen the need to delete a few comments!!!
We are currently 3rd favs for the CL (In our 1st year back) despite being 1-0 down to Porto and 3rd favs for the Prem as we enter our 2nd title race in two years as the current form team of the three involved with the best defence and GD in the league. The fact there is even debate on our direction or quality of manager is frankly insane.
If in 2 or 3 years it all came to nothing and we were selling some of our stars etc. and going backwards then it would make sense. Currently, it is so absurd I don’t understand what is going on in certain people’s brains.
More a reference to the comment section than the article.
Hh
At the risk of upsetting you. Zero trophies you say? Really are you sure?
Following Arsenal since 1971. First time comment. I personally love how we ate playing at the moment. Love the commitment. Long may it continue
Hello Murty.
No friend I am not easily upset or offended in online debates. There is a context behind saying zero trophies. Those who I said that to understod perfectly what I meant.
Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp. Yes. A bit similarities. But Arteta mostly related to Marco Bielsa. Just way much better.