WHAT HAVE WE LEARNT FROM THE LATEST MESUT OZIL POLL AND DOES IT TELL US ANYTHING WE DIDN’T ALREADY KNOW? by Ken1945
Let’s just remember what the question was “Should Arsenal reinstate Mesut Ozil in January or not?
A very simple question, based on what we have seen since the season started and, it seemed, the fan base on JustArsenal answered in the affirmative.
Of 568 votes, the “vast majority” voted in favour – 77% versus 23 or 439 versus 129 – a clear and unequivocal vote of confidence that Mesut Ozil would bring something back to the club.
Let’s also remember that, in the past, when polls were against the player, it was stated that JustArsenal mirrored the thoughts of every other Arsenal blog – so it must be assumed that is still the case and therefore the “vast majority” are hoping that the club will reinstate Mesut Ozil and, obviously that he plays once again for our club.
I make no secret of the fact that I voted ‘Yes’ and my thoughts on how the club have treated Mesut Ozil are well known, so I take great enjoyment in this result and the fact that so many fans see it the same way as I do.
Or do they?
You see, I read through the replies and looked at some of the reasons why fans voted Yes rather than No, and it isn’t as clear cut as it seems.
1. There were several fans who said that they would vote in the positive, simply because they are disillusioned with what is being served up by Mikel Arteta at the moment. So one would assume that, if we were playing as we did after football returned from the coronavirus, they would have voted No… how many times have we seen the statement “Well, we won the cup and Community Shield without him?”
2. The No voters brought up the salary being paid out to someone who is just sitting at home (ignoring, of course, that he trains every day and hasn’t broken one clause of his contract) and “bleeding the club dry.” The players record of just one assist and one goal is also used as an example of his exclusion from the squad.
3. The ones who voted Yes for the simple reason that they see a top-class player being victimised and treated in such a way that it puts the club on the back foot, whatever happens and are so frustrated at the tactics, boring, mundane that see us spiralling down the table and into a relegation situation. They also quote the number of chances created by MO, which, despite the lack of playing time, still sees him being second amongst the current first team squad.
The three points above (and if one looks at the comments from the poll) are there for everyone to see and shows just how much this issue changes with every group of result, from the unbeaten 2020 run during January to March, then the two trophy wins and finally to the run of home defeats – the results and performances are like chalk and cheese and both sides jump onto whatever suits their own particular thoughts and views.
It’s like witnessing the shifting sands of the Sahara desert.
There has never, in my opinion, a subject so divisive as the Mesut Ozil saga with our fans, not even the Arsene Wenger saga, which runs a close third, after the RVP judas viewpoint.
All I hope is that whatever is decided in January and June, the two sides of this debate do not taunt the other, and, for the sake of the club, we support whatever decision the club and MO make. As a fan of Ozil, that is exactly what I will be doing – I somehow doubt others will be so forgiving when the decisions are made.
In summary, a very interesting poll, that certainly supported the view that the silent majority were keen to see Ozil back in the fold and shows the said “vast, but relatively silent, majority” are alive, kicking and want their views to be heard and/or expressed.
However it is a poll that has shown just how great the division is between the fanbase on the subject of the enigma that is Mesut Ozil, from every angle that one cares to look at it.
Be as unkind as you want in your comments, as it’s water off a ducks back for this old f**t and may I be the first to wish all the many and diverse Gooner fans on JustArsenal a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year no matter what our differences are.
May we thrash The Saints tonight, even without MO, Bellerin, Xhaka, Partey and Martinelli (?).
COYG!!!
ken1945
Being sensible and realistic for the sake of sanity, Ozil is 32, way past his best, hasn’t played for 6 months, is leaving at the end of the season and doesn’t suit the way we play. I think all of these posts are futile because he isn’t the second coming of the mesiah and he isnt going to be allowed to prove Arteta right or wrong especially if Arteta clings onto his job. I think he could and will be moved on in January and replace by a person who can do the job and that realistically will please everyone and stop all these ozil boring non productive posts. And that isn’t a dig ken, its the truth. Good post.
I’m 💯 with you on everything you say about Ozil until you said he doesn’t suit the way we play. First…. how do we play?! And second….. I saw every reason they give for dropping him in only outfield player, Lacazette.
My second reason… is minus the defenders especially the cds
Yet we have just given two thirty one year old players, signed by MA three year contracts, with reported weekly salaries of £300,000 and £220,000 a week.
Now, Reggie, is that being sensible and realistic?
No it isnt ken, im afraid Arsenal are doing more and more unrealistic things and damaging the club.
On that we can agree 100% Reggie and, by the way, I have never described MO as the second coming, just, in my opinion, a player being used as a scapegoat to deflect what you and I have just agreed 100% on.
“replace by a person who can do the job”.
Simplistic statement. Our team is full of players signed to do the job but they don’t pan out. Just look at how many we signed recently and compare.
Ozil doesn’t suit the way we play.? You are 100% correct on this one. The way we play suits only our opponents.
Your last sentence 👌 Spot on, Icw
👍
It’s high time we speak the truth,Mikel Atheta is not the right manager for Arsenal.We need an experienced Manager who knows how to handle a great club like Arsenal.If this decision is disobeyed,Arsenal will be relegated and football fans will never forgive Arsenal football club managements.
Let me get this straight. I’m an arsenal fan. I’m also not stupid. I’ve seen Ozils media stunts, his cry’s for attention and his lacklustre performances and effort. The guys rotten, and he’s rotting the club. The quicker all these ozil fan boys wake up the happier the world will be, just go buy some of his clothes and cuddle them to make yourselves feel better. But for sure don’t tarnish me with the same brush as them. Ozil has no place at arsenal anymore.
Thanks Tojo
You have given me an idea for a Xmas presents 👍
I’ll line his pockets even more
Before ozil arrive at arsenal, when last did we win a trophy, and when arsenal sign him he won two fa cup for us and community shield and now you are saying ozil should leave arsenal.
Are you trying to tell us that you have willock?? How many killer passes have we registered in this campaign yet??? We need MO back, we need his assists we need to see our strikers scoring
I think leaving ozil out was a huge mistake and not just for what he added on the feild . But how it makes the other players feel about the company they work for . And for people to say it was the best thing to do are crazy . Good article ken
Edu has said that the first priority is a “creative midfielder” but did not say whether the player will be bought in January or in summer.
Ozil’s agent has said he will honour the contract no matter what the situation turns out to be at the end of winter transfer window.
I am also having the view that Ozil is past his prime but if we are not buying a creative midfielder in Jan, Ozil must be used against the so called “lower half” teams which deploys “low block” tactics.
The Gooners have forgotten how Ozil recycled the passes like a carousel, without any guts to make defense-splitting through balls and ground crosses from the byline. Ozil broke the assist record at Arsenal by making many crosses, but we tend to wait for through balls after that season
About his high “chances” stats, let’s check Xhaka’s forward passes stats first. Xhaka made more forward passes than any midfielders at Arsenal, but most of those forward passes are so predictable
Stats can be useful, but it can also be deceiving. Ozil has had several seasons to carry his team and he failed to do it, so let’s move on to a younger and hungrier midfielder
Completely agree with this. Because Ozil has a nice highlight reel and genuinely did put up some great numbers at one point, people can look back with rose tinted glasses, forgetting all the times he didn’t show up and contributed little. Those times were far too frequent, particular for a player of his experience and standing in the game.
“Ozil has had several seasons to carry his team and he failed to do it” well said bro!! I am always surprised how soon the ‘ozil fans’ forget this reality.
Misgana, what makes you believe that Ozil was supposed to “carry his team?”
How could he possibly do this, when UE was dropping him from one game to another and MA decided to drop him from the squad?
Same with Freddie.
Nothing but the blind truth GAI. People are apparently not tired of flogging a dead horse. You will see in two months, if ozil is somehow included and xhaka is sidelined and we still do not improve, these same fans will call for xhaka to be brought back to the team. Arsenal fans seem to have amnesia alot. We forget and forget.
Same as people who praised Arsene down to his last 2 seasons feel we’ll be better off with him in charge. Best arsenal coach no doubt but do you really remember what our performances were like in his last 2 seasons especially. The tiki taka and beautiful football was drying up. But fans will always forget and choose to remember what they want.
Ha ha like it kstix
The poll “proves” that Arsenal fans have selective memories which change with the wind. Emery and Wenger were despised by most when they were sacked but now quite a lot of fans are saying they would have them back. Nelson Willock and Niles have often been lambasted by fans as being not good enough. But now fans are clamoring for their inclusion in the first team. Ramsey Giroud and Sanchez were heavily criticized but now fans pine for their return. Ozil too was hounded mercilessly but now he is the answer to our making top 4 and winning the cups. Have a poll on whether Guendouzi should be brought back in the summer. I think the results would be the same.
Yep..
If Xhaka is left out of the team for 2 months and AFC continues losing, he will suddenly become the greatest playmaker in the world and the one who can save AFC.. You say selective memory ,I say its worse…dementia..
Exactly my thoughts above Mark. Spot on.
Wow I was just saying this same thing above. Spot on mate
I voted no.
But upon reflection I think I would vote yes. I think a huge part of artetas failings is down to his man management. I think his miss treatment of ozil back fired.
If you think about it he is the outsider coming in and picking on someone they don’t know. He isn’t a house hold name he is just some ex player who hardly won anything. Ozil on the other hand has been there and has made records such as his assist record in the 1st season. I am not sure if he beat Henry’s previous record. He has also won several cups alot more than arteta.
I think I would apologise and bring everyone back and clear the air and start again in Jan. Anyone who I feel should leave would be sold and and the remaining can fight for a place fairly.
Its obvious the dressing room is lost and you start bringing it back by brining ozil, saliba etc back into the fold and give them something to fight for.
#artetaout
Also I voted no because ozil was not great in the past season or 2. Often going missing and not creating much.
Again artetas mistake was he never selected a new no.10. He should crown a new king of creativity.
Also the fans need a real story to get behind arteta. When I say a story I mean a reason not to question why he is not in the team. Why are you disciplining him for no reason. Makes no sense
It wouldn’t let me vote.
I voted yes and here’s why
Firstly we struggle to break teams down at home, we don’t have in the current crop of available players someone who can find a pas to split a low block defence, MO can do that.
Our away form is mediocre at best and again he can be an option from the bench if we find ourselves in a similar situation as i’ve stated above.
The last reason is I would really like to see him play in front of TP and Elneny, I have always stated that to get the best out of our most creative player he needs solid, disciplined defensive players behind him, I would like to see that before he does leave.
I don’t see him as that type of player though. He’s not like Zidane where you just need to give him a platform and he tears teams apart. He’s much more subtle. At his best he was a great supporting player who made a big difference with a small touch or movement – Im probably wrong (didn’t watch him extensively), but my pre-arsenal memory is of him mostly starting from a wide position and drifting around, not really as a classic no. 10. I don’t think he thrives from being the main man or centre of attention (which is why he’s not the person to build a team around or break your wage structure over)
Everything you said Val is exactly why I voted yes.
Pretty much my way of thinking on the subject .
Val, makes obvious sense… unless we are going to buy a better creative player, or give ESR a run of games to prove he is the answer.
Whatever the answer, this squad needs creativity.
But Artetas tactics dont involve a number 10 role. He doesn’t see the game played that way.
So does his tactics not involve creativity, because that is what we are seeing at the moment Reggie.
I only voted yes because surely he can’t be any worse than the dross we have been serving up without him. If reinstated though I believe he couldn’t play until February and heaven knows where we will be in the league by then!
Ken: Great article as usual.
I think for the majority of fans, the YES or NO comes first and the reason is just an after thought.
As human, we react to events and support our reaction with illogical and emotional reasons that do not make sense.
For example most of the NOs are because Ozil makes too much money. It’s like justice is done when players make less and billionaires make more.
Good post Ken. I like the non-offensive style and open to disagree respectful style. Too many posts are written with an arrogance that pretends there is no room for a differing opinion. The arrogance of certainty is a dangerous one for an open mind which is a prerequisite for a mind worth sparring with.
I have been a fan of Ozil for a long time and respect his track record. However, over the years I began to see him as a rare specialty player who was way above average in terms of creative ability but still considerably below the level where he would make a great impact in many games.
In fact when the supporting cast started to evaporate Ozil arguably became a liability in big games on account of the fact that he doesn’t like to pull his weight on the defensive side of the ball (even Wenger mentioned this recently) and an unkown in tough games because he doesn’t like to be played hard.
Towards the end of the Wenger days Ozil’s impact had started to decline IMO and he didn’t do the job for Emery or Arteta.
When Arteta came on board he clearly wanted to do what most of the top 6 teams like to do which is use an aggressive press high up the pitch. IMO this was very successful last season. Ozil struggles with this IMO.
Therefor I don’t believe bringing back Ozil is going to make much of a difference in terms of our results.
In addition, I have great doubts about his ambition and personality. It seems strange to me that a supposed “wanted” player by many teams is happy to sit out the end of his playing career. If he loves football so much why didn’t he go somewhere where he was wanted? Sure, he has a contract and the right to collect his wages. But if he loved football why would he stay there where he knew he was not wanted? The only thing I can think of is for the money.
I see him as a festering wound with his public comments about loyalty trying to hide his desire to collect a paycheck without being wanted. His antics about paying our mascot’s salary also seemed nothing more than a PR stunt.
I think keeping him around the first team has been a mistake. As soon as it became clear he was going to collect his final year of his contract (which is his right) despite not being wanted by the club and despite (supposedly) being wanted by many other clubs, we should have removed him from the first team so he had no chance to poison the dressing room.
I put this down to the inexperience of our management team including Arteta and Edu.
So I don’t believe bringing Ozil back will do anything for us.
I see him as a festering wound
Spot on – should have ripped up his contract and paid him off in full – let him go be sensitive somewhere else. Wasn’t his fault he got given the contract so no-one should expect him to lose a penny of it – thats his right. No need to let him stink the gaff out in the meantime with the sly social digs and false ‘nice guy’ narrative. His agent gets on my tits – banging on about loyalty when in reality Ozil refuses to leave cos he doesnt need to play again – and will make The Arsenal pay every penny he is owed cos he feels slighted. I am sure he will pick up a healthy retirement contract is US/ Middle East – where he can coast for another couple of years. Such a waste of that 2015/16 player – he was electric
100% agreed!
Iain, The electric was suddenly cut off back then and newer reconnected. Agree with your every word! Why some simply refuse point blank to see his legendary idleness, quite beyond the laziness of any other Arsenal player – and I speak as a fan since 1958 – is amazing and depressing.
Great post the art of teta.
And yet the art of teta, it seems that you are in the minority – as I say it is a real conundrum with regards to the fan base.
As you would say Ken – it’s just the JA fan base.
But SueP, as I said, we were told that the JA fan base reflected the views of the vast majority – when the poll told a different scenario!!!
Funny old game!
It wouldn’t let me vote no.
Ken I might well be in the minority but that has never lead my opinion. Could it also be true that if we run a pole after Ozil has been back for 4 games with no impact at all and once again not putting in a visually committed shift that the outcome of the Pole would have been different?
Do the pole if when we are in 3rd place and you might also get a different outcome.
Many fans start screaming for different players to be brought in once results go South not realizing it often is not the player.
Fans wanted Mustafi gone as well as Xhaka under Emery. Arteta came in and all of a sudden opinions started to come out that Mustafi and Xhaka had miraculously become decent players. Xhaka gets a red card and now he should be sold. Mustafi makes a clanger next time he plays and he should be shot at down. He clears from the line and he is a hero.
Many football fans have short memories. We are struggling right now. If you did a pole asking if we should bring Wilshire back we might also get a result that shows many in favor.
Do the same pole after we win 10 in a row and most might see no need to bring Wilshire back and remember he is mostly injured.
Pole’s should be seen in context. Also, many of the fans who believe ozil is yesterday’s news and are exhausted to even hear his name might not even have bothered to vote.
TBH I would not mind Ozil coming back in January because I believe it would quickly settle the issue.
Agree 100 %, we are such fickle fans.
You mean a poll, not a pole. I only realised what you meant later on in readingyour post.
Ken Who cares? The fan base decides nothing The club has left him out of both squads so he cannot legally play while that stays the same. THAT and that alone, is what matters. Everthing else is just unimporant and non relevant noise. All I care is that he ain’t coming back in our team.
Jon…
I keep thanking you for your warm compliments! I really appreciate them! God bless you richly!
I know your disposition towards Ozil and the reasons why, and I feel they are rightly justified. However, I only want to ask, perhaps Ozil recommits himself to the right attitudes required, would you be glad to have him back in the squad in January? Or do you simply want him out irrespective of any change?
Cheers!
Good to hear from you again Fire. To be honest I think there is more chance of me, as a non CATHOLIC, becoming the next Pope than of Ozil ever again getting back in our squad. Maybe “more chance” is incorrect, the same chance would be more accurate. Both chances are zero and therefore the same, IMO.
Jon…
*laughing*
A nice tonic to go to bed!
You are always a great character Jon! Unique and totally interesting!
Please do stay safe!
Cheers!!
*still laughing*
Oh dear Jon, haven’t you always claimed it was the fan base that decided the fate of AW?
Or was that just an irrelevant statement and full of blustering noise?
As a realist, you can’t keep moving the goalposts to support your views!!!
I am confused on the lack of logic in bringing back Ozil. Almost ALL who seem keen reference his mesmeric passing and creativity. That hasn’t truly been seen since 15/16 season – with ok numbers in 17/18 and near enough bugger all since. 4 big chances created since beginning of 2019 season people! 4 in 2 seasons where he played a total of 44 games across the two. Thats creating a chance once in 11 games – in 15/26 he created 28 big chances in 35 appearances. I think we need to move on from the Ozil tedium
May as well suggest Pele as a good option – A player great in the past doesnt make them a good player now,
Your last sentence and everything you said is spot on
I personally do not want to see Ozil wearing Arsenal shirt, let alone playing for the club
i have always believe that the whole Ozil saga is the result of bad management. Even if Ozil has not declined, he is 32 years old. Good management should have his successor ready when he passed the age of 30.
If we have a capable replacement for the creative No.10 role, i think many more will vote a “no”
the 72M we spent on Pepe can buy us Ziyech and B Fernandez at the same time. Of course Emery wanted a winger. Arteta is a collector of defensive players. They both believe their “superior” tactics and systems can replace human creativity.
This disrespect for creativity made us miss 3 transfer windows to properly replace Ozil. And it backfires now.
So i have voted “yes” because Ozil is the only choice we have without spending extra money or recruitment effort.
My sentiments exactly I would say yes Ozil coming on for the last 30 minutes of a game give the opposition something to think about, look at all the old games Ozil were involved in even though the opposition nullified him it took at least two opposition players to do the job and it removes the focus off our other players who can actually make a difference on the score sheet, but leaving him completely out was a huge blunder by Arteta, most fans expect Ozil to be some kind of Roy of the Rovers because he earns a fortune my logic is simple, whether Ozil plays or not the club must still pay his weekly wage so we might as well make use of his powers of distraction on the pitch or on the bench
Couldn’t agree with you more. No more need to be said. At this point all their Gooners players are distracted. Unstable. Trouble brewing. Psychological effects. Arteta not good for The Gunners. They are not firing on all cylinders. The hell with the initial wins and cups. Arteta doesn’t have that hardliners approach to take take them in the top 4.
People have such short memories. When Ozil was playing, the majority of “fans” wanted him gone because they felt that he was not giving 100% in the games he played in. Now, lo and behold, they want him back and believe his inclusion in the team will magically fix arsenals current problems and he’ll be the best thing to have ever happened to arsenal. Really??
Correct
Ozil is not a long term solution. But certainly a short term solution, as the cost of a loyalty bonus is a lot lower than the cost of a team playing in the Championship.
Again Ozil does not need to start. Just in the squad. Come on with 25 – 30 minutes to play and find the killer pass when opponents are tiring.
KEN you were typically very kind about my long article yesterday , so in a spirit of Christmas goodwill I will return the praise in saying you make a very well written case, from your own point of view. I need not tell you that I do not share it, as you are well aware already.
I will add though that I will be astonished if Ozil ever again plays a single competitive game in our shirt, since there is an assumption by some on this site that he will be re- included in the squad.
I am grateful to you once again for using my own quotes as you so often do, but as its Christmas I will not ask for any Royalties for using my words, this year!
In fact, I am flattered that my words make such a profound effect on your considerable memory, which I’ll happily concede is far sharper than my own. Or perhaps my own phrases are just more memorable – I’ll let you decide that.
Jon, as you always use the quotes when giving your opinions, the “vast majority” one seemed so apt when discussing the results of the poll.
I would suggest that nearly every JA fan could quote the- and we have just gone 1-0 down at home!!!
Ken AND LETS NOT FORGET “BLEEDING THE CLUB DRY,” TOO. I love writing truth after all and would not like to see my truth not given full publicity, even if only for the sake of future Royalties for my work when used by you.
You hum it, I’ll play it Jon, as the PG monkeys used to say🙈🙉🙊
we are going to be paying him anyway and we are desperate. I don’t think him holding the space really hurts that much and if by some miracle he pulls strings in even a few games then it would be worth it.
I am not a fan of his but we are desperate. I do think that we can “cover” him when both Partey and Elneny are back.
This may be wishful thinking and I fully understand anyone saying no way.
The Ozil situation is not complicated. If your partner left you and you find a hotter, more achieved mate it would be easy to forget the old one. If he/she leaves and you have no one you are going to be very upset. That is why 3/4 of persons are upset about the Ozil omission. If Arsenal had replaced Ozil we would have placed him in our latent memory. But for as long as we struggle without a #10 – “WE WANT OZIL!” So humans are not as fickle as some of these posts suggest. We want to win and we will take even a half broken down OZIL over nothing.
Cheers
Herb🌿🙌
“WE will take even… etc”? I rather think not ! Some might but never me I only like those players who give 100%, which rules out OZIL, BY AT LEAST 70%.
Did you see weedy Walcott tonight Jon?
Perhaps your assessment of players is also starting to haunt you with regards to your assessment of managers Jon?
Just an observation my friend – have you seen some of our snowflake fans complaining about his celebrations when scoring against us?
Imagine if Mesut did the same next season Jon, how would you react?
Two of your dross, mentally frail and lazy players – surely one is enough?
How does dross or mentally frail square up with calling someone a twat in capital lettersKen?
Not sure what your trying to get at SueP, so please explain what a TWAT and MA /TW/MO and Jon have to do with it?
Ken you call out the words dross and filth and mentally frail frequently when discussing MO and in replying to JF as he has often used those words. Yet you have called one contributor a twat as has Phil, him usually in capital letters, and consider that acceptable. It’s a word that I never use – similar of course to the C word. I get it that a lot of people don’t know it’s true meaning but they don’t usually take the moral high ground in trying to get people on JA to be more respectful. You may think I’m overreacting but the use of the word irks me
Sue, you overreacting? Never 😄
Merry Christmas Sue
SueP, sorry but I don’t believe I have EVER used that word until replying to your question – can you tell me when please?
Hi Ken
It was a few weeks ago and it really surprised me as I’ve never seen you react that way. I should have mentioned it there and then which is a mistake on my part. You were pretty cross with who you replied to
Anyway, Phil has a fine turn of phrase which goes unchecked. I find now that I respond in a different way and rarely engage with people where I think there might me an unpleasant comeback. It’s not worth it
👍
SueP, there are words used in the site that I find objectionable, but this also happens at games and in life itself wouldn’t you say?
Jon and I have this great understanding that we both see certain things from a completely opposite viewpoint and delight in challenging the other over them… as has been the case for many a year.
As for me using the term that irks you, if I have then I cannot remember doing so and it is not a word in my vocabulary , but I still fail to see what that has to do with the article?
I can see perfectly clearly that you and Jon have a form of banter. How many times have you derided Jon for his use of language (you have done so in posts to me about how rude Jon is) but are more than happy to ignore the use of stronger words by another of your friends on JA?
As you sincerely believe that you did not use the word then that is the subject closed
SueP, I look forward to you calling out any reference to the genetilia of either the male or female form in future posts, whether slang, asterisk for missing letters or simply filth.
Meanwhile, I will ensure that I stay within the boundaries of JustArsenal as decided by Pat.
Onwards and upwards as they say.
Ken Though it may surprise you, I’d suggest that 12 lazy years in our shirt outweighs one game in a SAINTS SHIRT WHEN JUDGING WEEDS USEFULNESS OR OTHER, WHEN HERE . Wouldn’t you!
And your last line includes three Royalty payments for me, if used again after this calendar year, which I give you free as a Christmas present. I know how precious my quotes are to you and see how they affect you so clearly each time you use them, which is very often. I ought to be flattered I suppose, as imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!
Jon, what more can I say that you haven’t already said.
Of course your comments are important, as some do come back to haunt you while others show your knowledge – as it’s always better for debating purposes to repeat the haunting and “vast majority” one’s, rather than keep patting you on the back for the excellent trilogy just witnessed, I thank you.
Not sure that I would say I was imitating your views though… that would be stretching things too far!!!!
568 fans voting from the millions of Arsenal fans out there, tells us nothing, and Ken1945 knows this, hence his usual spin.
Any sensible person knows we need a playmaker, but Ozil isn’t the answer, and the last 3/4years have proven that, beyond any doubt. It would be delusional to think that after those 3/4 poor years, and almost another year of not playing, Ozil, at 32 and with constant back issues, would suddenly return a completely different player.
No TMJW, once again you try to turn my words – only YOU see my article as a effort to spin the result of a JA poll.
I gave three different interpretations of what the results produced, just by reading what the fans were saying when they voted yes or no – I can only assume you didn’t read what I said, as others saw what I was presenting.
However, the vote clearly indicates that, by a majority of 4 to 1, the view is that MO should be taken back into the squad.
I’m sorry that you cannot accept that and find it enlightening that you accept the results of polls that agree with your views, but not when they do not.
As you have also stated that the views expressed on JA, represent the views of the fan base, I simply accepted what had been assumed to be the case as you saw it.
Here’s a suggestion TMJW, why don’t you give your view on what the poll tells you with regards to the fans wishes?
I look forward to seeing what you think of the fans you see as not being “sensible”.
If you can find anything in my article that I claim is true, but is patently false, please present the facts.
It wouldn’t let me vote no
Did it let you vote yes😂😂
Sorry Reggie, but I suggest you take it up with Pat, it seems that you were the only one to date though.
By the way, thanks for your remark about the content of the article.
Just to pointout Ken that it is you, not me, who thinks my words come back to haunt me On our two regular quallels, AW and Ozil, I have been consisyently right all along and nothing has come back to haunt me.
On Weed, one goal against us, does not even begin to change an opinion based on almost twelve years of hiding and way underachieving.
JUST TO PUT MY OWN CASE, RATHER THAN LET YOU ASSUME I AM WRONG, MERELY BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE. Though to be fair I also assume you are wrong but have stopped saying it on here on those two matters, as neither now applies and I have got my way, albeit far too late, in both cases.
I would have AW back in a heartbeat as owner(preferably), director of football or any capacity he chose, as long as not team manager.
If he is staying on we are paying him, then it’s better to be using him soon!
Give Saka that role. The boy seems to flourish wherever he goes.
me thinks that the master baiter of this fine page is being baited himself, very clever indeed, and i applaud the fact that the person cannot see this happening. now , i will sit right back and watch how this unfolds, lol.
Ken…
Being of a scientific mindset, which inclines more to positivism, I am compelled to commend your desire to address issues from a similarly scientific point of view, which embraces the use of statistics. Lovely presentation, flow, and a great thought process! If for nothing, I must praise your desire to be objective despite being clearly of a known position (which is your love for Ozil).
Nevertheless, similar to TMJM, I must point out that your statistical sample space is painfully small, practically too small to make any meaningful conclusion whether for or against the reinstitution of Ozil. I would have been glad if you began your analysis by stating such a caveat, as it would have allayed many counter responses observed here.
There is also a lack of a clear and transparent mechanism that ascertains the validity of votes here on JA, which was not accounted for in your analysis, and which presents further worries about the validity of the outcome. For example, the case of possible vote multicasting by the same persons under different guises. This is a possibility, which as a statistical analyst should have been mentioned to place caution on the validity of our analysis.
However, I must confess that your worthy effort has presented some data for us to work with, which I must commend you for. I also love your effort to present the possible multiple viewpoints with regards to the outcome.
For me, I would emphasize that we should simply abide with the reality that Ozil is not in the squad presently, and try to move on with such a reality. Any other act, no matter how objective it is tainted to be, may simply suffice as a premeditated effort in the pursuance of an agenda.
In conclusion, I am convinced that our inability to understand the multidimensional nature of creativity, and our constant effort to view creativity only from a unidimensional perspective will continue to influence our views of whether Ozil is the solution or not. I believe creativity is a function of the whole and the dynamism of approach to the game, and less of a single entity. It is upon such an understanding that Klopp has built a winning machine even in the absence of Van Dijk, Thiago, Gomez, and many others. For us, until we arrive at a similar understanding, we will continue to think that one single player may be the solution, or possible solution to our predicament.
Once again, a lovely and worthwhile effort Ken!
Please do keep safe!
Cheers!
Thanks for your reply Fire.
As I reported at the beginning of the article the number of votes cast, I feel that I covered that issue at the start.
Secondly, every single poll that JA has conducted has been liable to any of the scenarios you suggest, but as Pat is well versed in monitoring them, one can assume he knows what to do.
Of course, this perceived rigging of the poll was never considered when the results were announced in favour of those who are negative about Ozil and, as I say, were used to claim that they showed the thinking of the wider fan base.
I am more than relaxed with the situation regarding Arteta/Ozil, as I feel any chances we had of making an impact in the PL this season, is well and truly over and MO cannot be blamed for the dire situation we find ourselves in.
The purpose of re-visiting the poll, was to draw attention to the three main threads when casting one’s votes – which I found very interesting.
It seems that, apart from the diehard yes/no fans, we now have another set who, because of the type of football being served up, are looking to Ozil for deliverance… just as the case was for UE.
Like you, I don’t believe one single player can deliver us from the situation, but some tactical and creative play does seem to link these fans with the player Mesut Ozil.
Interesting don’t you think?
Stay safe yourself Fire and rest assured, if we have another poll involving Ozil and the results are the opposite, you have given me the perfect platform to challenge the outcome!!
Ken…
Thanks for your articulated response. Again, it speaks a whole lot about your personality, which leaves so much to admire.
No one can deny that Ozil was once one of the most creative midfielders in the game. And for that, many would continue to attribute our lack of creativity to his absence. Nevertheless, I would suggest we accept his present reality, which is, Ozil is not in the team, and may only reappear, with little likelihood in January.
I also feel his refusal to gain game time and match fitness in the u23 during this period further indicates the suspect character and attitude often associated with Ozil. For one who truly loves the club, he could show his loyalty same as Sokratis and even Saliba have done, by opting to play out with the u23. It would only demonstrate how much he wants to play for the club, instead, he prefers to do the social media from home. That speaks a lot about his true underlying nature. Nevertheless, I do not intend to condemn him, but I feel a lot of his absence has to do with unwarranted arrogance and pride (in my opinion, I may be wrong), which I hope he would improve upon, at least towards sneaking into the team in January.
As usual Ken, always nice rubbing minds with you!
Cheers!
Ken..,
“… which leaves so much to admire. ”
I meant “great admiration for your personality”
My apology for any possible misinterpretation.
Thanks!
Cheers!
Fire, like you I found it strange that Ozil didn’t plat for the U21’s, as one would assume he would/could be breaking his contract terms?
One of can only assumed that such is the gulf between him and whoever allowed it to be the case, has decided that he is not wanted even at that level.
Thanks for the debate, it will be very interesting to see what transpires over the next few months and I hope to see MA still in the hot seat, with the full backing of players and fans via improved football and results.
Ken…
I really do not know much about the details, but seeing that Socratis and Saliba both agreed simply makes Ozil’s case a possibility as well (in my opinion).
Following in your thoughts, I also believe the next month will reveal the final conclusions about the Ozil saga, which is an unfortunate narration, particularly noting that an illustrious career is allowed to dwindle in such a manner.
We all wish Arteta all the success and hope we turn the corner soonest. Moreso, the players have majorly taken responsibility for their underwhelming performance, and that is essential for any positive change in the curve.
I deeply appreciate the conversation Ken! Its always pleasure!
Cheers!
A fascinating intellectual, albeit friendly, battle between you and the magnetic Fire, KEN my pal. As a realist of course what consoles me is not the opinion of fans, as they have no bearing on what has been decided but only the decision, already taken, to exclude OZIL. That is a huge comfort and is also the bottom line. And in life, the bottom line is what most matters. All else is mere academic chinwag with no practical use behind it.
Jon and if the decision is reversed come late January (hypothetical but go along with it for the sake of discussion) what will your bottom line be then?
If – which won’t happen – that decision is reversed, in your fantasy scenario, I will be then living on MARS, as Earth will be too crazy for me as a realist to exist here and stay sane. Supremely confident I won’t be changing planet though; after all some of the many fantasists we have on here are probably there already!
Buy Jon, were your notebook living on Pluto, when you proclaimed to everyone that Ozil would be out by July 2019 and lost a little sum of money?
Of course, if one waits long enough, for you it was ten years, when claiming that AW would leave the club, as well as the delayed Ozil exit,, please feel free to claim you were right – just as I can claim the high ground with regards to Unai Emery, Elneny, Walcott coming back to haunt us and,of course….Our non existent defence from the days of Sol Campbell, the2012 season Jon?
Were you not living on Pluto is what it should have said.
Fans will have many opinions. What really matters is what the player themselves think. I highly doubt the players agree with Arteta on leaving Ozil out. If a manager does not understand that, then he is not really worth having around, is he?
100% correct and the players, at one time or another, have given their thoughts on the professional behaviour of said player.